Laika

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Posts by Laika

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  29

  For all believers: I have a serious question

  by confusedandalone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  god ordered the killing of men women and children and animals and pillaging of various nations around them.

  in some instances god apparently led the way with his might arm.. this is not a question of wether it is right or wrong, but moreso a question(s) of:.

  1. if you were there would you have personally participated in those killings or would you ignore the commands?.

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  Laika

  I'd like to think not.
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  113

  How to accept the actions of the Old Testament God

  by confusedandalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how are we able to do this.. this is not an attempt to stir the pot or cause confusion but i was sitting here thinking of all the really horrid things that the old testament god did to people.

  when i was a jw i just purposely put it to the back of my mind always trying to make an excuse.

  when i was in field service and someone would ask me about it i would just change the subject.. however i have been reading alot of info lately here about how wonderful jesus is and how he is a direct representation of what god the father would be.

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  Laika

  Cofty, sure, that's why I said it was a conundrum, perhaps I should have wrote 'Jesus repudiated aspects of the old testament which encouraged violence and hatred' or something like that. Apologies for not being more clear.
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  113

  How to accept the actions of the Old Testament God

  by confusedandalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how are we able to do this.. this is not an attempt to stir the pot or cause confusion but i was sitting here thinking of all the really horrid things that the old testament god did to people.

  when i was a jw i just purposely put it to the back of my mind always trying to make an excuse.

  when i was in field service and someone would ask me about it i would just change the subject.. however i have been reading alot of info lately here about how wonderful jesus is and how he is a direct representation of what god the father would be.

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  Laika

  Jesus himself repudiated parts of the old testament. "you have heard that it was said 'eye for an eye'... but I say to you..." and whilst the OT gave the Israelites the permission to hate their enemies and even features God commanding them to be slaughtered, Jesus forbade this 'love your enemies' and also made loving our enemies the precondition to us being children of god. (Matthew 5:45)

  I agree though, of course, it does present a conundrum.

  This short video, whilst hardly definitive, might help a little: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQibs0mgTi8,
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  31

  I Went To A Catholic Mass Yesterday And What A Waste of Time!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the priest acted as if he was the reason why people were there.

  he was about 80 and totally disinterested in the affair although he married the deceased and her husband 15 years earlier.. his sermon's gist was that we need faith to accept that the reason why god has us die is so that we can go to heaven.

  and that's it.. the only interesting (touching) time was when the grandkids gave testimonials about their beloved grandma.. oh, and one more thing.

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  Laika

  I don't think the standing is mandatory.

  I'm sorry about the death of your friend.
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  15

  Baptismal regeneration

  by Laika in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've decided to start a thread on christian theology, wherein i will lay out what i believe scripture teaches about baptism... because i can.

  throughout the first 1500 years of christian history, it was universally understood that the christian is 'born again' at water baptism (and the majority of christians still hold to this) but then many christians started to argue that baptism was just a symbol of obedience, but i posit that nowhere in the bible will you find a verse that claims baptism is just a symbol, instead scriptural references to baptism always claim that it actually achieves something:.

  john 3:5 - born of water and spirit.

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  Laika

  I've decided to start a thread on Christian theology, wherein I will lay out what I believe scripture teaches about baptism... because I can. This is a continuation from another thread where I said that we are born again (born from above) at baptism, a statement a few posters took issue with. But if you prefer I'd argue that scriptures on baptism also present an issue to the JWs who also believe baptism is just a symbol (albeit it one that ties you to their organisation)

  Throughout the first 1500 years of Christian history, it was universally understood that the Christian is 'born again' at water baptism (and the majority of Christians still hold to this) but then many Christians started to argue that baptism was just a symbol of obedience, but I posit that nowhere in the bible will you find a verse that claims baptism is just a symbol, instead scriptural references to baptism always claim that it actually achieves something:

  John 3:5 - Born of water and spirit

  1 Peter 3:21 - 'Baptism now saves you'

  Acts 2:38 - 'Repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins

  Romans 6 - 'We were therefore buried with him in baptism...'

  Titus 3:5 - 'He saved us... by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the holy spirit'

  Many protestants will try to argue that many of the above verses refer to a kind of spiritual baptism, but I would respond that this interpretation runs into a problem when you get to Ephesians 4:5 (one baptism) as this suggests two baptisms (much like exists in JW theology) and it is much easier to get around this if we say the spirit is connected to water baptism (as described in Titus 3:5)

  As an addendum to this, here is something from 'Luther's small catechism' that might help:

  First.

  What is Baptism?--Answer.

  Baptism is not simple water only, but it is the water comprehended in God's command and connected with God's Word.

  Which is that word of God?--Answer.

  Christ, our Lord, says in the last chapter of Matthew: Go ye into all the world and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

  Secondly.

  What does Baptism give or profit?--Answer.

  It works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.

  Which are such words and promises of God? Answer.

  Christ, our Lord, says in the last chapter of Mark: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

  Thirdly.

  How can water do such great things?--Answer.

  It is not the water indeed that does them, but the word of God which is in and with the water, and faith, which trusts such word of God in the water. For without the word of God the water is simple water and no baptism. But with the word of God it is a baptism, that is, a gracious water of life and a washing of regeneration in the Holy Ghost, as St. Paul says, Titus, chapter three: By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior, that, being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying.

  Fourthly.

  What does such baptizing with water signify?--Answer.

  It signifies that the old Adam in us should, by daily contrition and repentance, be drowned and die with all sins and evil lusts, and, again, a new man daily come forth and arise; who shall live before God in righteousness and purity forever.

  Where is this written?--Answer.

  St. Paul says Romans, chapter 6: We are buried with Christ by Baptism into death, that, like as He was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life
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  96

  jw and jw defenders, have you been born again?

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs
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  Laika

  It might help to check out some eastern orthodox or even anabaptist views on the atonement. Evangelicalism is not the be all and end all of post-JW christianity.
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  96

  jw and jw defenders, have you been born again?

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs
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  Laika

  Ravens: Baptism literally means to wash with water, but it's not the water alone that does these things, it's the spirit working through the water. See also 1 Peter 3:21

  Anyway, I don't want to drag your thread too far off topic, so if you prefer we can discuss the doctrine of baptismal regeneration another time. :)
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  96

  jw and jw defenders, have you been born again?

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs
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  Laika

  To be born again or born from above describes an event where Christians believe they are given the gift of a relationship with God and everlasting life as a consequence of said relationship.

  It generally happens at baptism (born of water and spirit)
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  15

  Are YOU In A Good Place At This Point In Your Life?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think the longer you're away from the watchtower, the better you feel..

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  Laika

  I change by the hour.
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  27

  Finally sending a letter to the elders today

  by Suraj Khan in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  figured i'd give them a shot to explain why i was expelled from the congregation 23 years ago without counsel or a jc.

  dear sirs:.

  i attended the xxxx congregation in the mid-1980s as a teenaged unbaptized publisher.

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  Laika

  Seriously though, I hope I'm wrong and you can get some kind of closure.