Posts by TheSilence

??before a dream is realized, the Soul of the World tests everything that was learned along the way. It does this not because it is evil, but so that we can, in addition to realizing our dreams, master the lessons we?ve learned as we?ve moved toward that dream. That?s the point at which most people give up. It?s the point at which, as we say in the language of the desert, one ?dies of thirst just when the palm trees have appeared on the horizon.?
Every search begins with beginner?s luck. And every search ends with the victor?s being severely tested.?
from The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho

28

Are JWs Not Too Smart? Pros and Cons...

by Seeker4 in

in alanf's thread on whether or not thirdson (or whoever!

) is a gb apologist, there are several posts discussing the intelligence of jws.

on that subject, this is what i observed from over 30 years as a jw:

TheSilence

they used to say that reading the Awake! for 7 years ; was the equivalent of getting a college degree

One of the biggest reasons for my parents divorce: My mom wanted me to go to college; my dad refused to pay for it... he felt I already had.

Jackie

28

Are JWs Not Too Smart? Pros and Cons...

by Seeker4 in

in alanf's thread on whether or not thirdson (or whoever!

) is a gb apologist, there are several posts discussing the intelligence of jws.

on that subject, this is what i observed from over 30 years as a jw:

TheSilence

My dad is one of the most, if not the most, intelligent people I know. He became a witness when I was 5 years old. It was not due to a lack of intelligence, it was based on emotions and ego.

He joined, I believe, because he knew it would upset his parents (devout Catholics) and he wanted to get back at them for grievances he perceived. His ego would never let him admit, even to himself, that he would convert religions simply to spite his parents... so he convinced himself that this was the truth and chose not to look any further than he had to.

The witnesses also appeal to the righteous martyrdom of his personality. My dad likes to believe he is the only one who is right, and he enjoys it being him against the world at large.

At this point he will never leave... because his ego will never allow him to admit that, after he stood up to so many people and gave up so much of his time and life, he was wrong.

The witnesses discourage critical thinking. It doesn't mean none of them are capable of it. It means that those who are choose not to utilize it. It's a choice, which in my opinion is worse than simply not being smart enough. I wish I could say my dad just wasn't smart enough, that he was duped. It would be much easier to forgive that way... but it was a choice. Unfortunately, some of the most intelligent people make some of the stupidest decisions for foolish reasons.

Oddly enough, of all things a quote from Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince comes to mind. Dumbledore says to Harry, "...as I have already proven to you, I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, being - forgive me - rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger."

Jackie

50

Are you embarrassed?

by desib77 in

jw
friends

does anyone else find themselves embarrassed about their jw past?

i find that when people that know what i used to be ask me about it i am completely embarrassed by how foolish their beliefs sound especially things like the blood issue.

i can't stand when someone will say "why did you believe such and such....?

TheSilence

The thing to remember is that this is a part of who we are today... and who we are today is someone to be proud of... we had the strength of character to walk away.

Jackie

18

Why Johnny Can't Add

by wanderlustguy in

stole this from another site.... math 1950-2005:.

last week i purchased a burger at burger king for.

the counter girl took my $2 and i was digging.

TheSilence

Aaargh.... I can't figure it out ! How come the total is not the same when I count it in my head in the order given ?
1000 + 40 = 1040 1040 + 1000 = 2040 2040 + 30 = 2070 2070 + 1000 = 3070
3070 + 20 = 3090 3090 + 1000 = 4090 4090 + 10 = 5000

Celia,

The reason you're having the problem is that your mind becomes accustomed to adding thousands. So when the small numbers add up to 100 your mind automatically bumps up the thousand column rather than the hundred column. Look again at your last addition problem. 4090+10=4100, not 5000.

Jackie

An interesting quote...

by TheSilence in

i thought i would share:.

before a dream is realized, the soul of the world tests everything that was learned along the way.

it does this not because it is evil, but so that we can, in addition to realizing our dreams, master the lessons weve learned as weve moved toward that dream.

TheSilence

I thought I would share:

“…before a dream is realized, the Soul of the World tests everything that was learned along the way. It does this not because it is evil, but so that we can, in addition to realizing our dreams, master the lessons we’ve learned as we’ve moved toward that dream. That’s the point at which most people give up. It’s the point at which, as we say in the language of the desert, one ‘dies of thirst just when the palm trees have appeared on the horizon.’
Every search begins with beginner’s luck. And every search ends with the victor’s being severely tested.”
from The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho

14

What is your theory on the series "Lost?"

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i am a big fan of this series and have a couple of theories of what i think is happening and wondered what others thought, just wanting some insight.. one theory.

i think the people got on the plane and never actually crashed.

i think they were gassed and taken to a government (possible alien) location and their minds were feed the reality they think they are experiencing.

TheSilence

My brother has an interesting theory. I don't agree with it, but I do think it's, as I said, interesting.

My brother believes that everyone died in the plane crash and that the island is really limbo. The reason the others took the children and some of the adults is because they made it through the limbo stage and moved on. I guess that would make the others... angels? gatekeepers? something of that nature? This also explains why, as you said, their thoughts seem to create some of their reality... they have to work out their past to move on.

I like the concept, but it's too simple in my mind. It doesn't explain all the Dharma connections. Why people see this 'creature' made of black smoke. Why the psychic made sure Claire would be on a plane that ensured she had to raise her own child. The coincidental connections between the characters before the plane ride... Hurley owning a box company... Locke working for a box company... Sawyer meeting Jack's dad in a bar... Hurley having that comic about the polar bear, Michael giving his son a stuffed polar bear in his goodbye to him when he signed away his rights, and a polar bear showing up on the island. And as for Walt making the polar bear appear... also remember that he did 'wierd' things before the plane crash, too... the bird that flew into the window, etc. I think there has to be more to it than the simple explanation of being in limbo.

Jackie

76

Anyone want to try an experiment?

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

i have been having a discussion with scholar.

and like most discussions with a jw we aren't getting too far.. scholar insists that the wts/jws are known for:are known internationally as a clean and moral peopleour organization alone stands as a beacon of truth, hope and faithadvance people spiritually, emotionally and physically.

there are other wonderful qualities that he attributes to the wts/jws but that is usually the gist of his remarks.. of course most x-jws will say something quite different.. the experiment is this:.

TheSilence

I hate to break the bubble for the JWs but my perspective on them, and that of most people that I know, is that they are a bit nuts.

Some of them may be very nice, and possibly even intelligent, while others are obviously truly obnoxious. But the traits and characteristics of any individuals aside, I find their beliefs way off base. I most assuredly do NOT see them as a beacon of light or hope or morality! I see them as sadly misguided.

For the record I do believe in God and Jesus Christ and practice my Christianity within the Roman Catholic Church.

76

Anyone want to try an experiment?

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

i have been having a discussion with scholar.

and like most discussions with a jw we aren't getting too far.. scholar insists that the wts/jws are known for:are known internationally as a clean and moral peopleour organization alone stands as a beacon of truth, hope and faithadvance people spiritually, emotionally and physically.

there are other wonderful qualities that he attributes to the wts/jws but that is usually the gist of his remarks.. of course most x-jws will say something quite different.. the experiment is this:.

TheSilence

Back when I was in High School I was marching in an anti-Vietnam war march when a JW tried to hand my buddy a copy of Awake. My friend's response was a polite "No thank you. I already have an alarm clock". Left the JW totally non-plussed.

I am almost (but not quite) ashamed to tell this story. After High School a friend and I were sharing a house. We both worked night jobs and tended to sleep in rather late. One day, in the late forenoon, a sweet little old JW lady called at the door just as I was getting ready to leave the house, for something or other. I invited her in and asked her to take a seat. I then excused myself for a moment, went out the back door, got in the car and drove off. Left her sitting by her lonesome in the front room. Shortly after I left, my roomate got up and wandered out into the front room wearing nothing but his BVDs. This guy was rather unprepossessing at his best, but first thing in the morning, strolling about in his jockey shorts, he was an absolute nightmare. The old lady jumped, he jumped, she screamed, he screamed, she made a flying exit out the front door while he did a full tilt boogie in the opposite direction. Too bad I couldn't have figured out some way to leave and still stick around to witness my handiwork. BTW, she never came back.

There are a few JW's who do the rounds banging on doors where I live. They don't get a lot of joy as there are an awful lot of holiday homes in this area, I often see them standing at holiday homes waiting ages for a reply. I used to politely tell them that it was a holiday home they were waiting at, but gave this up when I got no word of thanks or acknowledgement, just a kind of soulful stare.

They don't come to my house anymore, I think that a polite "I'm not interested please go away", eventually got through. That and they're scared of my dog, even though he's a big softie, when someone is at the door, he stands behind me howling. He just wants to get out and say hello, but I can understand people being scared of him.

The only thing I really know about JW's is the blood transfusion thing and that they don't gamble. A girl at my high school was a JW and I recall she really made herself unpopular because she would always tell the truth about things that had happened, when the rest of us would never see anything.

I have read extensively about the JWs, partly because of the occasional friendship that occurs. Of course most of my life I have had an interest in comparative theology, etc. etc....

To cut to the chase, I think that all strict religious belief is a security blanket. People feel insecure without a graspable concept of a God that gives their lives meaning and importance. The more insecure they are, the more they need a tight box to hold their beliefs. A God who is all down on paper like a legal contract is controllable, therefore more comforting.

Insecurity is the cause of arrogance. The more self-centered a person is, the more insecure you can assume that person to be. Obviously, then, since the JWs have a very tight system of belief, they attract insecure individuals and will be seen as arrogant.

More to be pitied? Yes, but all such security-blanket cults are a dangerous tarpit. Hitler was insecure. All we can do is try to be aware of where our ideas are really coming from.

The witnessing is a nuisance, but their position on blood transfusions places them in the category of child neglectors of the worst kind.

The kind that just want to believe, and, possibly, tell you about your faith? Those are fine with me.

The kind that like to tell you why you're going to hell if you don't listen? Not so fine with me.

My niece's niece by marriage married a JW. His father and mother are also JW's and the old man drinks goes to the gambling boats and loses all his paycheck on a regular basis and has on more than one occassion beat the hell out of his wife because she tried to keep him from taking her paycheck and depleting the bank account to gamble. They got Jessica out of bed after she had worked another double shift, the fourth that week and treated her to a harangue, along with several members of the Kingdom Hall, about a woman is suppossed to be subservient to her husband and that she had to hand over every penny she had to him and keep her mouth shut about it. And they wonder why she left him after only 6 months of marriage. This is not typical of everyone of the JW's, but I know of some other cases like that. Not all of them drink and gamble. Not all of them beat their wives. But they are all knocking on doors and do not like to take no for an answer. And I agree on the subject of the blood transfusions. Too many children have died because they weren't gibven the proper medical treatment, and the court order came too late. If an informed adult does not agree to one that is one thing. If a child is in danger that's another.

And I don't think that anyone will go to hell because they don't believe my way.(Catholic) And I hate the ones who try to make you defend your beliefs when there is no point in it. I don't believe in the things that you believe in, so let me alone. I'm not a pagan or a heretic. And I don't think you are either.

Originally posted by *omitted*:
I don't believe in the things that you believe in, so let me alone. I'm not a pagan or a heretic.
Even if you were, it would be your choice, and nobody has the right to pester you about it.

My mum was a JW....She was baptised over 4 yrs ago now and last year she had an affair outside of her marriage to a guy 14 yrs younger than her and because her and my Step-dad are seperated and don't live together and they no longer engage in sexual intercourse, they are no longer 'man and wife' in that sense....Any ways, my mum had an affair and she got, what I call 'debaptised' just because she had an affair with someone 14 yrs younger than her....

My mother in law loves it when missionaries knock on her door. She is a Unitarian Universalist, and tries to convert them.

When I was younger, every time the JWs would come to the door (it was the same couple every week) my mom would make up a vegetable and cracker tray and my dad would invite them in for a coffee and they'd sit and have a nice visit for an hour or so, then the JWs would leave, and then the next week they'd come back and the same thing would happen. I was really young, so i don't remember if they actually got around to discussing theology, but they always left their magazines, and my dad would read them, though he was never tempted to convert. Then one day the couple who would come were in a car accident and after they recoevered, they didn't go out driving to people's houses anymore, and we never really saw them again, though I remember mom taking us kids to see them after they got out of the hospital. I still remember them as really kind people.

After they stopped coming, though, other JWs would come and they would be kind of cold towards us, and condescending and sometimes pushy. It wasn't like they wanted us to necessarily believe what they believed, but more that they pushed us into considering their religion. IMO, when you are happy in your own religion, or even lack of religion, you shouldn't have to be harangued every week to consider changing your beliefs.

Then a few years later, I remember getting into a big discussion about the Bible and the different interpretations of it at our other house, and i enjoyed the debate, but afterwards my brothers teased me mercilessly and I tended to avoid answering the door after that if it was JWs. I am atheistic, so there was no chance of them converting me, but I still enjoy listening to other people's perspectives about religion.\

So to answer your question, some JWs I find to be polite and interesting to talk to, and others I find pushy and "in-your-face". On the whole, though, they have mostly been polite and friendly.