so lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?
there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.
edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!
I agree, discreetslave. The Watchtower uses the scripture to show that anyone who does not agree with the teaching of the Governing Body is "mentally diseased". That's preposterous. Simply because we want to inform others of the Watchtower's many failings should not be dismissed as a "mental" problem. That is hate speech, plain and simple, meant to provoke hate.
Greybeard. no one is whinning about it. We are just pointing out the ridiculousness of the Watchtower's stand.
when i was growing up most of the jws around me were poor and lower middle class.
some were middle class, but very few were upper middle class.
only (maybe) about 1% were college educated.
You are assuming that just because a person has an advanced degree or that they are financially well off that they are emotionally stable. These sorts of people are just as likely to be seeking some sort of spiritual fulfillment as anyone else. So it is not the case that just because a person is rich or intelligent he is immune to the crafty teaching of the Watchtower. Rich, intelligent people can have as many emotion problems, or family troubles, as other people.
Some witnesses say that because Brother and Sister So and So are doctors and lawyers and are also Jehovah's Witnesses then that gives credence to the validity of the religion. But does it really? There is some sort of disconnect between intellectualism and religious teachings. People, no matter how intelligent, tend to suspend belief and to grasp onto "pretty words" of living forever. This is why religion, in general, is so popular and why many, many rich, intelligent people still believe the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church despite its well publicized abuse of children.
It's remarkable what people will put up with in the name of religion.
there are two parts to this topic you can read one or the other or both if you want, i just figured i post this for differents ones who might being going thru what i am going thru i tried to write this as quick as possible so everything i am posting here is not to offend anyone i know everyone has the own opinions on different things so you can disagree or agree, but this is where i stand.
sorry for any spelling errors or grammar issues up front.
my story .
"And to pass up a possible reward just to live your life the way you want is it really worth it............"
So you're going back just because there might be a possible reward by doing so? Do you really believe that Jehovah is handing out awards only to Jehovah's Witnesses? Is there really an award to be had at all? Jehovah's Witnesses believe that by attending all the meetings, going out in field service and obeying the Governing Body, Jehovah will reward you with everlasting life. Well, my friend, you can go to all the meetings you want to, put in all the field service hours you can manage and obey the Governing Body all the live long day, but doing so has nothing to do with service to God and your only reward will be loss of your valuable time which you will never be able to get back.
The main reason most people leave the organization has nothing to do with how bad they were treated or the fact that they wanted to go out and live a wild life. It has everything to do with the fact that jehovah's Witnesses do not teach the truth and a close examination of their teachings proves that. That is why most people leave. Because they do not want to live a lie or give credence to a lie.
You say that you believe that man and the earth have a creator. Do you need jehovah's Witnesses to reinforce that for you? Many other religions teach the same thing and they do not expect the blind obedience to a group of old men in Brooklyn who claim that they speak for Jehovah.
So whether or not you go back is your decision to make. Just make it with your eyes wide open. You are not going to get any reward for putting in endless hours of field service or sitting in the Kingdom Hall. "Jehovah" is an entity created by the Watchtower. They even gave him a personality in that he cares about field service hours and if you are coming to the meetings or not. He cares if you watch R rated movies or dance in a provacative way. He cares if you have long hair or grow a beard. The great ruler of the universe hears only the prayers of the witnesses and oversees the building of new halls. Children are dying of starvation and people are dying of painful diseases. Jehovah has no time for these people. After all, they are not "true" christians.
Some god, huh? Some great ruler of the universe, huh?
several years ago, before my wife and i left, my 5 yr old daughter got up during the watchtower to cross the aisle to sit with someone else.
she tripped on the roving microphone wire and smashed her head on the foot of a metal chair.
the bleeding was profuse and an ambulance was called.
I'm glad he sued. I'm glad that he recouped some of the money that he contributed to the organization over the years. I am perhaps not as ethical or noble minded as some of you profess to be but I don't see anything wrong is wanting revenge against the organization. Sometimes people just get angry and want to lash out. This is being human and there is nothing wrong with that. I bet it was cathartic to receive that check. It may have been his decision to join the organization but it was a decision based on he organization's lies and being lead to believe that the organization had the "truth". Good for you! Don't feel bad and don't let others tell you how to live your life, or define who you are and how you should act.
maybe i'm naive or just plain stupid, but i believe what the mystery bethelite says.
also, i don't think it's out of the ordinary that mary was concerned about going to the bathroom in the kingdom hall.. remember, the elder at bethel who was arrested because he took pictures of people using the bathroom?
that was hard to believe but it was absolutely true.
Hi MD.
I don't know if he is a website monitor for the Watchtower or not, but I do know that there are website monitors.
maybe i'm naive or just plain stupid, but i believe what the mystery bethelite says.
also, i don't think it's out of the ordinary that mary was concerned about going to the bathroom in the kingdom hall.. remember, the elder at bethel who was arrested because he took pictures of people using the bathroom?
that was hard to believe but it was absolutely true.
I don't know. Maybe I'm naive or just plain stupid, but I believe what the mystery Bethelite says. Also, I don't think it's out of the ordinary that Mary was concerned about going to the bathroom in the Kingdom Hall.
Remember, the elder at Bethel who was arrested because he took pictures of people using the bathroom? That was hard to believe but it was absolutely true. There have been homosexual rings at the Bethel Home and pedophilia at the Kingdom Halls. Can we just dismiss out of hand what the mystery Bethelite has to say?
Remember, not all of these men are godly men. This is not the same organization we knew 20 or 30 years ago. This organization is a whole new animal run by neurotics, control freaks and attorneys. I wouldn't put anything past them.
Of course the mystery Bethelite's story is incredible. So that? Does that mean it is unbelievable? Not at all.
ren/debator the constant references to this fine work is probably bringing more publicity then ray could have possibly dreamed of, carry on plugging away..
"We lost some mystery and gained some reality but nothing surprising unless people were putting false expectation of perfection onto our shepherds."
I never expected perfection. I realize that the Governing Body is made up of imperfect men. However, I did expect humbleness and a measure of humility from those who profess to be acting in accord with Holy Spirit. I also expected some transparency. It is simply not enough to make rules and change doctrine by declaring that you are only doing the will of God. We are entitled to know what exactly took place to get you to this point and why we should believe your interpretation is now correct. One reason that Crisis of Conscience is a highly regarded book is because it threw off the Waatchtower's veil of secrecy and for the first time let us in on what happens at the top. The Holy Grail? Yes, to some people that might be true. So what? After decades of secrets and half thruths it was marvelous to be able to see inside the inner workings of the Watchtower organization and to realize that the wizard had no real power. That the edicts and rules of the Watchtower were just the whims of selfish, imperfect men and that they were in no way acting on Holy Spirit. God was and is far from them.
So like Jim Jones, David Koresh and all the other delusional men who claim to speak for God, the Governing Body is just another imposter. Just imperfect men who run a money making organization. So why obey them? In recent times the Watchtower has talked about apostates and how they speak against the organization with lies and half truths. Isn't it curious that they never give specific examples. Why not? If apostates are so wrong and they are so right, why not eagerly point out the discrepancies? I believe it is because they know that apostates have exposed them and they are afraid.
maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?
in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.
one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.
@Listener wrote:
"I really am puzzled as to who you are eggnog, whether you are in a position of authority within the org or a [wolf] in [sheep's] clothing. I do think that you have either been asked or are self appointed to write on this forum in the hope that you can encourage those fading to return. No doubt you would advise that it is not important who you are."
I can answer that. This guy has no position in the organization. He probably feels that he should have a position, but can you imagine him at meetings? A pain in the rear........ Always correcting everybody with what he thinks is right. He is just a puffed up publisher who believes he knows more that the elders and the organization. They know that he's nuts so he comes here where he has a captive audience who will engage him in conversation. He is out merely to prove to us how smart he is. That's all.
maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?
in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.
one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.
"For your information, not only am I one of Jehovah's Witnesses, but I serve as an elder in my congregation. Surprise!
I don't care if you, like @caliber, are counterfeit Christians, but how exactly does your telling me that you are presently an elder supposed to impress upon me. @Gary 1914? You're not fooling Jehovah; he knows who His true worshippers are, the ones that are worshipping Him with spirit and truth. (John 4:23) Go brag to @caliber or to someone else about your lack of integrity. I have no interest whatsoever in hearing how much of a counterfeit you are. I'm ok with you and @caliber choosing to be such."
Impress you? You've got to be kidding. You are the last person I would try to impress. Counterfeit? I would look in a mirrow before I start throwing that term around. You are the most conceited, most counterfeit "christian" I have ever encountered. You are arrogant and superficial and believe you are serving God when you heart is actually far from him.
Fooling Jehovah? You mean that God the the witnesses invented? The Watchtpwer God? That God has nothing to do with being a christian. He has nothing to do with the truth.
I am not a false christian. I am a genuine christian. I follow the words in the Bible not the dictates of any manmade organization that pretends to speak for God. My God is much broader that you can even imagine and he cares about the world of mankind. Not just Jehovah's Witnesses. He hears the prayers of all mankind. Not just those of the witnesses. My God does not tell me that doing from door to door with a magazine that some man wrote is going to get me everlasting life.
I know the lurkers can see how you are twisting words, ideas and scriptures to make yourself look pertinent, when in actuality you are just a weak little man with a superiority complex, following a weak ineffectual little God. You can bombard this boardd with thousands of pages of your dribble and you will still be wrong.
maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?
in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.
one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.
i told you this guy would be back with another 40 pages of utter foolishness. However, it seems I was wrong.
He has surpassed 40 pages of blithering idiocy and I do not say that lightly.
When it is pointed out to him time and again that he is wrong, he simply comes back with more pages of redefined words because it is he alone that has knowledge of what the society really means in its writings. He alone knows the meaning of their words. He is special and above all other witnesses.
I bet he is now feverishly writing to get out his next tomb of baloney.
