Posts by Gary1914

55

shunning is love - Feb 15 2011 Watchtower

by jj123jj123 in

18 if you face a similar situation, please remember that jehovah sympathizes with you.

by cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome.

however, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her.

Gary1914

Hi Jam. I only stay because i do not want to disrupt my family. It's the only reason. I have not stepped down from being an elder because my voice is heard in judicial meetings. I always vote for leniency unless there is some sort of sexual perversion going on. When the society instructed us to report pedophiles in the congregation to the police anonymously using a pay telephone I would not. I called from the Kingdom Hall phone and reported it. I never let the other elders know though. When I answer in the meetings I always say "the Watchtower says" or "the organization says". Once a Circuit Overseer called me over after a meeting and said that I should not do that. That the organization wants us to personalize our comments and that I should say "I believe" or "I think that". I listened to him but I sill answer my way and I will continue to do so until someone makes a real issue of it.

I do not contribute to the organization and all my field service reports are fake. I don't feel guilt because my loyalty is not to a man made organization. It is to God and he has nothing to do with the Watchtower.

I am an adult and I can frquent any website I wish to. I will not let some organization tell me what to do or what to think. I'm going rogue. lol

55

shunning is love - Feb 15 2011 Watchtower

by jj123jj123 in

18 if you face a similar situation, please remember that jehovah sympathizes with you.

by cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome.

however, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her.

Gary1914

If one of the reasons for shunning is to keep the congregation "clean" then it is failing miserable.

I am a currently practicing elder. So I know.

Congregations are crawling with filth of every kind. Concealed fifth that rarely comes to light because of political reasons.

There are pedophiles, adulturers and incest. There are liars and gossipers and bullies.

Actually the congregations mirror the outside world, its just that the organization legislates how we are to act toward one another. So we appear kind and loving and helpful on the outside. Inside, we are teaming with disappointment and mental anguish. Of course, this is not true in all instances. There are truly warm and loving people in the organization. There are warm and loving people outside of the organization also.

In my experience, the people in the congregation that are disfellowshipped are actually some of the nicest people there. They feel guilt about their wrongdoing and either confess outright or do not deny it when the wrongdoing is presented to them.

Religion, ALL RELIGION, is indeed a snare and a racket.

55

shunning is love - Feb 15 2011 Watchtower

by jj123jj123 in

18 if you face a similar situation, please remember that jehovah sympathizes with you.

by cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome.

however, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her.

Gary1914

"By cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome."

No you're not. You are showing that you are obedient to the Governing Body. There is absolutely nothing loving about shunning. Nothing. What about just telling the person that you hate what they have done, that you are disappointed in them? Why must you shun them?

And those they have disassociated themselves? Why must they be shunned? Why punish someone who no longer wants to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses? Especially if the person still professes to love God but just no longer wish to be a witness?

What the Watchtower does is practice a form of theocratic blackmail. Either you come back to the organization or we cannot speak to you or associate with you.

It's hateful and disgusting.

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

Gary1914

Hi Lisa, You (and others) have done a stellar job of proving to this Watchtower fanatic that his religion cannot have holy spirit and is not of god. In spite of the many evidences you have displayed to him from the Watchtower's own literature he has made the decision that it is easier not to defend the watchtower, but just to deny the teaching. His mantra has become, no they never taught that. For example, prophesying the date of Armageddon, denying that disfellowing family members can resume familial relations. He prefers to pull the covers over his head and hum.

And he is the one who accuses others of being intellectually challenged? Incredible.

Well, he is probably off frantically typing another 40 pages to post proving to us that he is the only one who is right. Actually, I do believe that this witness is delusional and maybe a bit deranged.

I bet that he is humming as he types.

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

Gary1914

@djeggnog

For your information, not only am I one of Jehovah's Witnesses, but I serve as an elder in my congregation. Surprise!

I continue in this position for the same reason that many of my fellow elders do. We do not want to lose our friends and family. I, as do many others, know that this religion is bogus and has absolutely no Bibical backing, but we endure because of mothers, fathers, childrens, grandparents. We realiza that the only proof that the Governing Bpody represents the Faith and Discrete Slave "class" is because they say they do.

We make up field service time, we make up bible studies, we make up the number of return visits. I have gotten quite good at it and have not really been in field service for years although my time is actually above the national average.

I don't know how long I can continue, but right now I am doing the best I can......... I'm holding on.

When I hear you speak about minor fulfillments and major fulfillments of Bible prophesy I can only shake my head. When I read how vehemently you defend the ridiculous overlapping generation doctrine I really find it hard to believe. You have truly bought into the Watchtower philosophy one hundred percent. djeggnog We all go through different emotions times in our lives and I believe that at this time in your life you really need the Watchtower promises to cling to, to believe in.

Just one thing and that is how we are told to treat disfellowshipped persons. Yes, we are told how to treat them. It is even printed in the new elder's book. I am an adult with a family. Why can't I decide for myself to whom I wish to associate with? If someone is a murderer or a pedophile how many witnesses do you know who would want such a person as a friend? On the other hand, if I as an adult wish to associate with a girl who has had a baby out of wedlock or someone who has smoked a cigarette (for examples) I should be able to make those decisions for myself. My feelings should not be dictated to me.

In conclusion, fellow board members, I think it is obvious we are wasting our time talking to djeggnog. His mind is made up. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has the TRUTH. It reigns supreme. If the Governing Body were Jim Jones, djeggnog would be begging for that cold, cool drink.

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

Gary1914

@djeggnog wrote in response to a post:

This statement of yours borders reflects your ignorance and your unwillingness to be adjusted in your thinking, which is really the mental state of many Jehovah's Witnesses today that attend meetings at the Kingdom Hall as if they are members of a Christian club of some sort and warm the seats. These folks are among the ones about whom the apostle Paul spoke at 2 Timothy 3:7 , who are "always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth."

First of all. djeggnog, you really need to get over yourself. I don't know what makes you think you are more intelligent than anyone here but it seems that you do. You are haughty and cannot give weight to any opinion other than your own. You seem to desperately want believe that what the Watchtower teaches is true. I feel for you, really, because I used to want that too.

Is it possible for you to make your point without insulting people and questioning their intelligence? It is really getting tiredsome.

Just because someone does not agree with you does not necessarily make them unintelligent. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps it is you who are not intelligent? After all it is you who believe and defend the convoluted and ever changing teachings of the Watchtower. It is you who defend that doctrines and dates and really, to me, that makes you unintelligent. I could understand your position if you were just one of those witnesses who go to the Kingdom Hall because they have "faith". But you have actually done some research and still believe that this is the "true" religion. Poor thing.

Just for the record, the Watchtower is a made up religion. They even made up a God and call him Jehovah. Their God only listens to their prayers, he is keenly interested in how many hours you put in every month and how many meetings you attend. Your God is in a little box and is not the God of the Bible who emcompassess and cares for all of mankind. Your God is small and petty and does not want you to get an advanced education or to have associates and friends outside of the witness-club. Your God is glad when you turn out your sons and daughters because they do not want to be a part of the witness-club. Your God cannot make up his mind about doctrine and flip flops all over the place. This is a God you want to serve, then go do it.

But do not come here with your ridiculous attitude and insults and believe that you are going to teach us poor ex-jws a few things. We've heard it all before and we know exactly where you are coming from.

Please note that people are disfellowshipped for reasons other than sexual misconduct. Many more people voluntary leave the organization after opening their minds and doing some research.

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

Gary1914

You wrote:

"You speak about the Watchtower as if it were a person instead of the name of a magazine or the name of a publishing company staffed by Jehovah's Witnesses, which prints the Bible and Bible-based literature that Jehovah's Witnesses use in their Christian ministry. It is the faithful and discreet slave that provides spiritual food for the domestics in God's household, and not "the Watchtower" (whatever you meant by it)."

You're just being silly and playing the semantics game. The Watchtower is the magazine in which the organization publishes the latest "truth.' In fact, the organization recently said that the words they print in the Watchtower are not their words but the words of God.

You seem to feel that everyone who does not agree with what you are trying to say is "unintelligent", "ignorant", "unable to comprehend". You on the other hand are brilliant and to be admired because you have it all figured out. You are a "real" witness of Jehovah and all other are just phony witnesses.

However, you are doing is just what the Watchtower trained you to do. You are guessing. You are guessing and the organization to which you are affiliated is guessing. You even refer to scriptures and Biblical characters to give your guess substance. However, it is just your opinion. None of it is absolute truth.

Witnesses love to say that what was published before is not important. It is what is being published today that matters. That's your stance, right? I get it, because when your "truth" changes in the next few months you can repeat that mantra.

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

Gary1914

djeggnog wrote:

"At Matthew 24:34, Jehovah's mistakenly thought by Jesus' use of the word "generation" that he was there talking about the lifetime of people. He wasn't. What Jesus was talking about was the period during which the sign of his presence would occur. It is this span of years, this period of the sign of Jesus' presence, that would not pass away until Notice that Jesus is here talking about the generation of the sign as a period of time and not as the lifetime in which only a few of Jesus' anointed brothers would be alive, and it is this wrong viewpoint that moved us to conclude that we could calculate when the end would likely occur by noting how few of the anointed were partaking of the emblems used at Christ's memorial every year, which is rather macabre when you think of it. It's as if we were living in the hope that there would be fewer of Jesus' anointed brothers and sisters with the passing of each year. However, once we came to realize that Jesus was referring to the period during which the sign of his presence would occur, which period began in 1914, we then came to realize that we have no real idea when this period, when this generation of the sign of Jesus' invisible presence, will come to an end. Now we know that it was for ths reason that Jesus went on to say at Matthew 24:36, "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."

So, really, there is but one generation of the sign with the anointed that saw the beginning of this sign and the anointed that will not pass away when the great tribulation comes toward the end of the sign. There is no reason for anyone to be attempting to force two [generations] into becoming a single generation since Jesus only spoke of "this generation," not two generations, and now that this generation has begun, Jehovah's Witnesses are waiting in expectation for this generation of the sign to end, and we hope that this will be soon."

Convoluted Watchtower reasoning. You even managed to get the year 1914 in there. lol Did you defend the 1995 change this vigorously? No matter. Just reserve some of that vigor for the next generation change.

However, I've got to admire how they got around the fact that the number of annointed was actually increasing and not decreasing. Very clever. I wonder how many board meetings it took to come up with this new spiel?

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

Gary1914

"If you cannot accept the fact that what you read in a publication published in 1985 or 1989 cannot possibly contain what you may be able to read in a later publication published in 2010, since the understanding of Jehovah's Witnesses of the scriptures progressively increases over time, so that it is totally unreasonable to expect Jehovah's Witnesses to publish something we can to appreciate 2010 in any publication released prior to 2010. If you truly have an open mind, then you will take this point open-mindedly, and stop being unreasonable."

Oh my goodness! I just noticed this quote from you and I cannot imagine that you actually believe this. Talk about being unreasonable. So why should Witnesses pay attention to doctrine this year? Next year there will be a greater understanding and the year after that another understanding and so on and so on and so on.... When does it stop? Does it ever stop? I would not mind so much if they just admitted that they are guessing. That they are reakky not sure. But they, like you, are so adamant in their guesses. No one would know that they sit around a big table in a board room and try to come up with new conclusions when their prior conclusions failed. Of course, before they start their guesses they pray for Jehovah's spirit. Of course they are sure that they have that spirit. Or are they? Do they have God's spirit? Or are you are defending the words and guesses of mere humans. Folly?

I believe that you are a smart guy but your downfall is refusing to challenge the many changes in the organization's doctrine. What about the millions of books and magazines that were printed prior to this year? All garbage? What about the Bible studies where we taught one definition of generation only to have to learn another definition of generation and so on and so on...........

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

Gary1914

djeggnog,

The following is in reference to the change of Generation that took place in 1995.

"Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah's people have at times speculated about the time when the "great tribulation" would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However, we bring a heart of wisdom in, not by speculating about how many years or days makeup a generation, but by thinking about how we "count our days" in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah." (Watchtower Nov 1, 1995 p18)

Don't you love how it is worded? Jehovah's people have at times speculated? Talk about passing the blame.

"Does our more precise viewpoint on "this generation" mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all! Though we at no time have known the "day and hour," Jehovah God has always known it, and he does not change." (Watchtower Nov 1, 1995 p20)

"Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy today, "this generation" apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ's presence but fail to mend their ways." (Watchtower Nov 1, 1995 p19)

Oh, oh. In 1995 they used the word APPARENTLY. Perhaps you would like to give us the definition of that words also. I only ask because since I am too ignorant to comprehend the English language, I will leave that to you.