Posts by Kagloo

46

What is God doing?

by Kagloo in

this is a genuine question... i mean no disrespect to anyone...especially to my heavenly father....but i have this gnawing question in my head that just wont go away...... okay... with that out of the way.... let's take the holly and jessica story that hit the headlines in the uk recently...two innocent kids, murdered and left to decompose in a filthy mud trench....;or worse than that, the story about the two people in the usa who have been busted for running an internet child porn site that features pix of children...babies as young as five months... five months!!!!!!

!.....being sexually abused..... if i start to think about what these poor kids went through it drives me mad!

and then if i start to think about what some kids are still going through even as i write..... welli can hardly bear it!.

Kagloo

CRAZY151 DRINKER.....Ouch ! Ouch! Ouch!

I'm not worried about my loved ones dying... the ones that have died are dead! Worrying one way or the other would make 'one h'apeth of difference' as they say here in Lancashire! But what I do experience is HURT! and a great sense of LOSS and an almost overwhelming sense of ANGER..

Yes of course I lay back sometimes and let it all roll over me.... chill out and have a beer... (well a glass of Scotch in my case!) but in my moments of remembering........

There are places I'll remember all my life though some have changed

Some forever not for better

Some have gone and some remain

All these places have their moments

With lovers and friends I still can recall

Some are dead and some are living

In my life I loved them all.....

It's when I remember that I miss them - and all the chilling out in the world doesn't take the pain away! It's probably true that God is having fun 'up there' ... but he too knows what it's like to loose someone (albeit temporarily and with the sure hope of seeing him moments later back in heaven!) and I'm pretty sure that he empathizes with us in our dark moments of grief.

My hope for the future is sure and strong... but in the meantime I still miss the ones who are no longer a living part of my life... That will only stop when we are together again... one way or the other.

Thanks for the comments... Every point is appreciate and valid.

80

Very Bad News Re: Post Yesterday

by Celtic in

jw
friends

i'm not sure how to put this news gently to the community here, but regarding my post yesterday regarding chantelle.. thankyou for all of your kind messages and warmth displayed on your parts.. chantelle was only 16 when disfellowshipped.

only 18 years old with her whole life in front of her.

she took her own life this morning at 0400hrs.. i am so sorry not to have been in a better position to get your letters to her in time.. take care all of you & kindest regards.

Kagloo

PRECIOUS

Precious like a gemstone alive with fire

Precious like the rush of blood born out of loves' desire

And never asking in return more than a touch - a smile

A diamond set in platinum

A summer breeze - A winter sun

Sweet honey as it newly runs from golden yellow combs.

For me this simple truth remains a feeling deep inside

Like shooting stars in autumn skies that cannot be denied

That preciousness in human vessels oft escapes attention

So busy as we seem

Through life as in a dream

N'ere seeing what we ought to see

Love... in its full dimension

At peace.....

20

Dying you will not die?

by Kagloo in

i have a question that has puzzled me since i got my large print bible...... in genesis 2:17 it states.... but as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.".

the footnote reads.... lit.. " dying you will die.

" okay i understand that... .

Kagloo

NAVIGATOR:

WOW! Thanks for those 'deep' thoughts. I do have a slight problem with the idea of heaven being a state of consciousness... How does the record of the events in Heaven described in JOB1:6 fit in with that idea? It describes angels actually assembling with god and the devil coming in amongst them... That sounds like an event rather than a state... if you know what I mean...

Take care.

20

Dying you will not die?

by Kagloo in

i have a question that has puzzled me since i got my large print bible...... in genesis 2:17 it states.... but as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.".

the footnote reads.... lit.. " dying you will die.

" okay i understand that... .

Kagloo

YERUSALYIM:

Excellent thought about the idea of 'covering' their important little bitz with leaves but God using animal skins perhaps denoting the need for a sacrifice... I have never looked at it like that! Although that doesn't address the question as to why the genitals were covered as opposed to any other specific part of the body does it.

And just how would you define Hell? Are you thinking of the idea of eternal death as being completely unconscious in Hades ( Mankinds common grave ) or the idea of an eternal conscious existence in a place of torment ( Hell Fire etc.)?

NAVIGATOR:

Thanks so much for the reply.

You believe that Jesus 'came' ; Came from where?

Also.. you say that we are just as much God's sons as Jesus was... That's a wonderful thought. The only problem I have with that is that...

1. Jesus apparently has a pre-human existence in the spirit realm ( Prov:8) and he himself said that he 'was' before the world was !
Sadly I cannot lay claim to a similar existence.

2. He talks about himself as the only begotten Son of God. Only begotten meaning the only direct sentiant creation of the Creator as I understand it. As one of over six billion humans concieved by natural means here on the earth I'm afraid I don't measure up in that department either. I wish I did!

3. Jesus himself stated that he came into the world to offer his life '' in behalf of the world ; and the apostle Paul said that the whole point of the ransom was the reconciliation of men to God. That would hardly make sense if we had never been alienated from Him... Would it?

4. When Jesus gave up his earthly life he gave up the right to father a perfect human race which he could have done if he had wanted... he carried the perfect genetic material in his genes.. and as seen from his own birth it was possible to have a perfect child born from an imperfect woman (Mary) And as I understand it he then used that 'ransom' to purchase..or to buy... or to adopt the whole human family. So in that regard he has become our Eternal Father... as Isaiah said. I'm afraid that my fathering of children stopped at just 2! So I'm not the same in that regard either.

Anyway... that just my point of view....

Thanks for the reply.. it was certainly food for thought!

46

What is God doing?

by Kagloo in

this is a genuine question... i mean no disrespect to anyone...especially to my heavenly father....but i have this gnawing question in my head that just wont go away...... okay... with that out of the way.... let's take the holly and jessica story that hit the headlines in the uk recently...two innocent kids, murdered and left to decompose in a filthy mud trench....;or worse than that, the story about the two people in the usa who have been busted for running an internet child porn site that features pix of children...babies as young as five months... five months!!!!!!

!.....being sexually abused..... if i start to think about what these poor kids went through it drives me mad!

and then if i start to think about what some kids are still going through even as i write..... welli can hardly bear it!.

Kagloo

TTBoy

All this scientific stuff really excites me!

Like you I look at the 'progress' made in the last 100 years and it just blows me away. And knowing that the rate of discovery and innovation is expedential it doesn't take much to fathom out that if we survive for the next 100 years without a mass extinction due to our stupidity of some other cause.. well....who knows where we might be!

I find it interesting too that they have discovered the remains of civilisations on the seabeds all over the world. I guess they would be the remains of the cities etc. that existed before the Flood. Obviously people would have lived on lower ground then and when the water came it drowned them and their civilisations... The interesting thing is though that these remains indicate that the builders and inhabitants were massively more advance than we are now... well in their building techniques anyway... So is that why they had to be stopped... quite apart from the 'scriptural' reasons for wiping the world of that time away ( you know... the Nephelim etc.) perhaps they were so advanced that they were 'moving to fast' and had to be slowed down a bit! I don't know.. what do you think?

And just touching on the @God' part of your comments... I personally have no problem with having God in the equation. For me it seems logical that intelligent offspring (i.e.us!) would have an intelligent creator... but that's just my point if view.

20

Dying you will not die?

by Kagloo in

i have a question that has puzzled me since i got my large print bible...... in genesis 2:17 it states.... but as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.".

the footnote reads.... lit.. " dying you will die.

" okay i understand that... .

Kagloo

NAVIGATOR:

Thanks for the reply.... You will have to bear with me... I must be a bit stupid. I understand exactly what you mean when you say the the Eden account is an allegory.. I'm not sure if I am ready to accept that such a view is accurate yet though!

You see.... I don't understand your point that we have never been seperated from God... If this is what being attached to God means I dread to think what actually being seperate from him is like... and besides... if we have never been seperated from him why send his perfect son as a ranson to facilitate a reconcilliation? I don't get it... Mind you that is nothing new these days.. there is so much that I was sure I understood that I'm not sure about anymore.

Thanks for the thoughts anyway.

Just a further point on the subject that I have never quite understood ( I told you I was stupid!)

Why, when they became aware that they were naked did Adam and Eve cover the genitals? I have never understood that! Why not cover their mouths...? Mouths can be a lot nastier than genitals!

Why not cover their eyes... after all it was their eyes that lead them to form a desire for the fruit in the first place wasn't it?

Why cover the very things that were their God given means of passing on the Divine gift of life?
Answers please!"

Thanks

46

What is God doing?

by Kagloo in

this is a genuine question... i mean no disrespect to anyone...especially to my heavenly father....but i have this gnawing question in my head that just wont go away...... okay... with that out of the way.... let's take the holly and jessica story that hit the headlines in the uk recently...two innocent kids, murdered and left to decompose in a filthy mud trench....;or worse than that, the story about the two people in the usa who have been busted for running an internet child porn site that features pix of children...babies as young as five months... five months!!!!!!

!.....being sexually abused..... if i start to think about what these poor kids went through it drives me mad!

and then if i start to think about what some kids are still going through even as i write..... welli can hardly bear it!.

Kagloo

LYIN EYES...

( Great Song! I love The Eagles stuff!)

Anyway......

I am a pretty emotional guy ( I cried when I watched ET !) and your post REALLY touched me. I am sad that you have left the organisation... ( I love this BORG thing !!! What does it mean?)

For my part I am sticking with it for as long as it takes but as an invisible member (see some of my other posts)

I feel safe this way... a bit like a shy kid in a classroom. I do answer sometimes and everyone says that they wished I was more involved.. but I am damaged... I know i am... and I really can't take the pressure anymore... even if I wanted to do.

I do go on the ministry... but I only take my Bible and use it to tell people about Jesus and what he promised and what great guy he was. And hey.. I seem to be doing okay....

You seem to sad and confused... and that makes me sad for you. Tonight when I talk to Jehovah I will specifically talk to him about you and your son.

You say that you are on a journey to find God again.... Today I went for a walk of ten miles... just because I wanted to... I often just take off and walk and walk and walk... I sometimes think that I am trying to walk away from myself....! but after Ten miles I realised that I just wanted to be at home so I turned around and caught a bus ( Hey come on... my feet were killing me!) and I came home.

I should have been at the meeting really!

Some of the most important journeys we make are the ones with a return ticket! I think that sometimes it's us that give up on ourselves rather than Jehovah giving up on us....

Keep your chin up.... take care of the boy.... I am thinking about you!

10

Elders... Examples to the flock?

by Kagloo in

a friend visited us today... it took about five minutes before we were having a general moan about the ways things are!

anyway.. these friends of ours were telling us about the things that go on in the families of elders in various congregations and how these guys are still in office.. .

now i thought that if you were 'appointed' it meant that you had god's blessing and approval... but how does that work out if you are allowing unscriptural things to go on in your own family and yet you are still in office?

Kagloo

Hiya KAYTEE...

I guess that we could all relate to those comments!

Mind you...I ought to be careful.... I was a new and young elder once upon a time and often went along with things because I didn't want to cause waves... so I am probably as hypocritical as the rest.

For my own part I have explicit trust and faith in Jehovah and his Son Jesus. I love The Truth ( as I understand it) It helps me make sense of the chaos. But I have little if no trust at all in the elder arrangement... I'll tell you one reason why....

Some years ago my daughter married a guy in the congregation and basically he went bad after just thirteen weeks of marriage! So the elders 'dealt with him' By that I mean that they slapped his wrist and said... " don't be naughty again!" He had stolen over 3,000.00 from his employer ( I don't know the equiv. in $ ) But no other action was taken as his mother... a long standing witness.... begged his ex-employer not to report him to the Police.

Anyway... my daughter fell pregnant and the baby was born and we learnt that her husband was refusing to give her money to buy food for the youngster... my wife and I gave her cash for weeks just to feed the lad! We told the elders ( my wife and I that is...) and were told to stop interfering in our daughter's marriage! One of them even called me a clucking old hen! - behind my back of course.

Things went from bad to worse... the youngster, Liam, died from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and was buried. Barely a couple of months later an elder came to me, because I was feeling really bad and had suffered what I guess you would call a slight breakdown, and said " don't you think that it's about time that you put this behind you and moved on!!!! " If I were a violent man I would have hit him!

Meanwhile her husband was up to his old tricks and was soon dealing with counterfeit money, smoking, gambling etc.etc. and eventually was brought before the elders again. This time they told him that he and my daughter should tell my wife and I to keep out of their lives... this is after we paid to bury our only grandson and spent hours EVERY DAY with my daughter who was constantly left on her own, as her husband 'played the field'

And then they started a study with him !!! They did not even discuss the matter with my daughter... no visits... no encouragement... no help... NOTHING!

In fact after one such study period with the elder concerned her husband came home and shouted abusively at her... " You stupid bitch... they don't believe YOU they believe ME! "

It seemed at the time that the very arrangement that should have protected her was actually working against her interests.

Anyhow... Eventually they guy started an affair with another woman ( not in the truth ) and he was seen and reported and called before the elders again... But this time my daughter had had enough and threw him out... ( By this time she had another two children by him 2years old and three months old! I think that she thought the kids might settle him down a bit! )

Now... the elders decided to visit her.

On the day of the visit my wife and I were there, helping with the children... they are great kids...

The two elders came to the door and must have heard us talking as they walked in.

" What are THEY doing here ?" one asked. My daughter said that anything that they had to say could be said in front of her mom and dad. Just then they walked into the room and one of them... I have known him for 20 years... turned and said to me.... " One word out of you...and you will be OUT!" Then they DEMANDED that my daughter take her idiot residivist husband back!!

" You have no right to throw him out" they told her.

In the end, following FIVE judicial hearings he was disfellowshipped, but not before he had duped us into guaranteeing a 5,000.00 loan which he subsequently refused to pay... leaving my wife and I with the debt....

When I asked the elders why they hadn't dealt decisively with him before they said " We were concerned about the effect that disfellowshipping him would have on his elderly mother!!!!!!

( Show me in the Elders Book where it says that ! )

This is just a small portion of the experience that we went through... but enough is enough.....

Just for the record my daughter met a guy in the Truth and they married, had two more sons and are happliy serving Jehovah as a united family...

And me?

I am still so angry about the arrogance, the high handedness, the hard-heartedness, the total lack of concern and care for the innocent party whilst protecting the wrong doer that I will probably NEVER trust an elder again...

I remember one occassion not too long ago when her now ex-husband came out of prison...following a four year sentence for robbery. He was driving his car even though he had been banned from driving for five years and had his licence removed.....and his mother... still a sister in the congregation.... was sitting by his side. Breaking every law in the book. Now , as it happens the Police saw him and he went straight back to jail... but when I approached the elders and asked what they intended to do with his mother they said that I was persecuting the woman and if I didn't stop they would take action against me!

So now what?

Well I have, in fact, pulled back from all but the minimum involvement in the congregation.. I prefer to be invisible! They can't hurt you if they can't see you... (I hope)

I can't help but think that the elders would benefit from specialist training in Counselling etc. Why do we allow these amateurs to barge into our personal lives and wreck everything up so badly?

Now I just try to keep my head down and do as the scriptures say... " Worship God"

Take care. Kind regard to you and your family.

20

Dying you will not die?

by Kagloo in

i have a question that has puzzled me since i got my large print bible...... in genesis 2:17 it states.... but as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.".

the footnote reads.... lit.. " dying you will die.

" okay i understand that... .

Kagloo

I have a question that has puzzled me since I got my large print Bible.....

In GENESIS 2:17 it states.... But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

The footnote reads.... Lit.. " Dying you will die." Okay I understand that...

Now in GENESIS 3:4 it reads.... At this the serpent said to the woman: " You positively will NOT die." Okay... I understand that too...

But the footnote reads this way.... " You positively will not die." Lit "NOT DYING you will DIE."

Does that mean that the Devil was saying to Eve... " Look it's like this... Jehovah has not told you the whole story... what happens is this... Sure you will die in a physical sense but in reality you will not die altogether. i.e. you will continue to exist in some other form other than human."

Was this the first time that the lie about the immortality of the soul was raised?

Is that what it means when the Hebrew literally states... Dying YOU WILL NOT die?

I am no scholar but I would be interested to know exactly what this phrase " DYING YOU WILL NOT DIE " really means.

Answers... Points of View... please? Thanks.

46

What is God doing?

by Kagloo in

this is a genuine question... i mean no disrespect to anyone...especially to my heavenly father....but i have this gnawing question in my head that just wont go away...... okay... with that out of the way.... let's take the holly and jessica story that hit the headlines in the uk recently...two innocent kids, murdered and left to decompose in a filthy mud trench....;or worse than that, the story about the two people in the usa who have been busted for running an internet child porn site that features pix of children...babies as young as five months... five months!!!!!!

!.....being sexually abused..... if i start to think about what these poor kids went through it drives me mad!

and then if i start to think about what some kids are still going through even as i write..... welli can hardly bear it!.

Kagloo

SS

A few good points... thanks for that! I guess Jehovah doesn't have to answer to me about what he's been doing anyway... it's just that sometimes when bad things happen you get flustered and angry ( well I do at least) and you turn to the One who talks about caring for you and loving you and all that sort of stuff. Mind you - I really love my daughter and my son and my six grandsons... but I don't involve myself with every aspect of their lives... Is that the point that you are making?

I think that perhaps Jehovah is not actively doing any creating in our part of the universe... mind you they do say that there are parts of the galaxy where stars are being formed.. perhaps He is overseeing that..I don't know! But I would imagine that he is busy doing lots of other things in other universes... I believe the term is " The Multiverse" ......or other dimensions or something.

All I know is that I believe that he has made an 'appointment' to get back to us to sort the mess out that we are in and that he will probably do just that. Well that's how I see it anyway.

Thanks again for your view of the matter.