Posts by hurt

22

Stopping by to say hi..

by Mimilly in

jw
friends

thought i'd stop by to say hello and drop hugs all around.

i do lurk from time to time - but have withdrawn quite a bit due to several weeks of flu and infections.

the marital front sucks.

hurt

((((Salem))))

Miss you! Sad per the marital thing. Glad you're busy, and that the girls're doing fine too.

You got mail!

Cheers.

12

JW News Article - "Satan's Witness"

by UnDisfellowshipped in

i have edited this to correct some of the errors and wrong info.

while checking out http://watchtower.observer.org i found a very old news story about a jw pedophile from 1977!.

here is info about that article:.

"Why shouldn't he remain a Witness? The congegational arrangement for dealing with molesters is superior to the government procedures, and the elders have not only the interest of the abused children bat heart, but also the unity of the family, the peace of the congregation, and the non-defamation of Jehovah's name. Perhaps there were no two witnesses to any one of the events. The evidence may not even have been clear, the alledged abuse happened many years ago; may be they're just repressed memories. We must stick to what the bible says about witnesses, who must be credible; we cannot afford to allow the innocent to suffer to satisfy the whims of a few who simply want to see the accused in jail. In due course, the truth will be known."

SIGH. What else isn't the WTS guilty of?

2

JW Baptism Ceremony

by nonjwalltheway in

does anyone have the actual language used in the jw baptism ceremony?

i was interested particularly in the section where a newly baptized individual has to recognize the watchtower as the spirit directed organization.

are there any jw manuals that i could reference as well?

hurt

I found this article. I don't remember who wrote it. But it's informative and has a few references. You could find it useful.

Development of Baptism Questions

This article details the changes made over the years to the dedication vows made by Jehovahs Witnesses at their Baptism and shows how the members are unknowingly dedicating themselves to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

While the Society has said that Christians do not dedicate themselves to an organization, it tells Witnesses that salvation does not come apart from the Watchtower organisation. For example:

Devoted Witnesses have kept their faith in Jehovah's organisation. They know which one of all organisations on earth the Almighty God has used to give the greatest witness to his name and kingdom in all Christian history... Is there any cause for us to lose faith in Jehovah's visible organisation because of mounting difficulties in this world? Those who believe that Jehovah will never desert his faithful witnesses answer, "Absolutely not!" In demonstration of such faith, we will keep on sticking to it and working with it without slacking the hand. Our unwavering faith will be rewarded with victory and the crown of life!

- MARCH 1, 1979 Watchtower (p. 18)

In line with these sentiments, in 1985 the Society changed the baptismal vows such that new Jehovah's Witnesses dedicated themselves, not only to God as had been done for a century before, but to the Watchtower Society itself. This is evident from the baptismal vows published up through 1985:

(1) Have you recognised yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

- Baptismal questions from the Watchtower, AUGUST 1 1966 p. 465

(1) Have you recognised yourself as a sinner and needing salvation from Jehovah God? And have you acknowledged that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus?

(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through God's Word as his holy spirit makes it plain?

- Baptismal questions from the Watchtower, MAY 15 1970 p. 309

(1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognising yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

- Baptismal questions from the Watchtower, MAY 1 1973 p. 280

On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organisation?

- The newest baptismal questions, from the Watchtower JUNE 1 1985

Contrast these latest questions with the statements above, from the Watchtower.

Finally, compare these statements to those made in the Watchtower, p. 19:

So for the Christian, baptism following dedication establishes an intimate relationship with Jehovah God, his Son Jesus Christ, and the holy-spirit...

By recognizing God's authority, we draw close to him and enter into a relationship with him... We become God's property as his slaves, bought with the price of Jesus Christ's ransom sacrifice... The apostle Paul also told first-century Christians that they belonged to Jesus Christ, not to any men who might have taken the truth to them... Baptism in the name of the Son implies recognizing this fact, accepting Jesus as "the way and the truth and the life."...

At the time of dedication and baptism, therefore, we need to reflect prayerfully on what is involved in our new relationship. It requires submission to the will of God, demonstrated in the example and ransom provision of Jesus Christ, to be carried out through holy spirit as it directs all of God's servants in love and unity world-wide.

This last is a most unusual statement in that the "faithful and discreet slave" is not mentioned as directing the work. In any case, the Society has managed to get newer members to, in effect, join a worldly club from which their membership can be terminated at any time by the Society (disfellowshipping) while at the same time convincing these newcomers that they have only dedicated themselves to their Creator.

Edited by - hurt on 10 November 2002 13:47:34

Edited by - hurt on 10 November 2002 13:51:31

28

Mother Teresa Comments WT 09-15-2002

by jgnat in

i have been waiting to see what the wts has to say about this little nun.

here it is in can saints help you?

wt september 15, 2002, introductory article, the modern appeal of saints .

hurt

"His glib, borg-brained response was, "well, if you give a man a fish, you feed him for 1 day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for the rest of his life"."

Meaning: teaching a man to fish means making him go empty to the field to be a fisher of men and women and children, no? JW unity fosters on being wicked to the outside world in the most fundamental and humane way. How they miss the lesson of the parable of the good Samaritan is amazing. Mother Theresa represents what the JW machine is not: compassion, and humanity.

34

DF'ed for Organ Transplants?

by NeonMadman in

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i'm in a discussion with a jw who is claiming that the society never actually prohibited organ transplants between 1967 and 1980. she has read the 1967 article, but feels that, since the article does not specifically state that anyone taking a transplant will be disfellowshipped, that it was simply discouraged, but not prohibited.. can anyone help with a reference demonstrating that jw's could be df'ed during that period for accepting a transplant?

hurt

Gary: "Christian Witnesses of Jehovah .. consider all transplants between humans as cannibalism." {AWAK Jun 8 1968 21} [Amazingly this 1968 item got left out of the CD-ROM versions of AWAKE..."

Blondie:"Gary, you seemed to say that the word "cannabilism" was left out of the 1968 Awake on the WT-CD."

It seemed Gary meant the Society left out Awake! material written in 1968. You've correctly pointed out that pre-1970 Awake! material do not appear in the CD-ROM (I have the 1999 edition). They can't risk adding the older material in the new CD ROM's. They'll be hitting new lows in the program of selective (mis)information if they do that.

For those who may want to take a look at some realy old materials, the links below could be helpful. Six volumes of C.T. Russel's Studies of the Scriptures. Any JW seeking the truth of the JW message and claims should find them instructive.

*http://www.eskimo.com/~billz/Truth/Volumes/

*http://www.bibletoday.com/V1/Default.htm

102

What Was The 1st Thing That Made You Question?

by minimus in

jw
friends

as a youngster raised in the "truth", i had my questions.

but anytime you ask a question that is unanswerable, you are told to just wait on jehovah.

as time passes, i believe that we store up a number of unanswerable questions that forces one to eventually think about everything.

hurt

Something happened... and then someone said if loved my family I would exert myself to make them all witnesses. Now, mama, God bless her, is a good woman. She's going to heaven no matter whatever anyone said... And here they're saying she was toast for A'geddon unless she became a dub. Was I sleeping all these years or something. I woke up and started reading stuff again. Started questioning. And of course, I then got iNet access...

34

Jobs that the WTS doesn't approve of

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

there were several different careers that the wts did not aprove of.

such as a being a cop, for having a gun.

couldn't be a martial arts instructor.. maybe it was a well paying career.. did you have a job that was not approved of?

hurt

There was a brother, elder, in our hall who was (and still is) a policeman. He gives talks int e congregation but never at an assembly. He's been policeman and elder for decades.

A couple years ago, there was this brother who had a Phd and was to take up some research appointment with the UN. It raised dust. Everyone talked about it, like how it was appropriate or not and how it would stumble people. Poor professor brother didn't take up the appointment. If he only knew was sleeping with the image of the beast. He still doesn't know, I guess. May be I should send him a package.

38

HONESTLY, Do You Consider Yourself A Nice Person?

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you really feel that you are a nice person or an unlikeable one?

when you were in a congregation, did you tend to get along with people?

were you contentious?

hurt

When I was really in... something'll tell me it's bad what I'm doing to my mother... no birthday presents and stuff... used to get her mad. Good in the congo, bad at home...

Now.. well... good guy?...Well, yes. Good some. Last week someone said I make them happy. Yesterday, someone else said I'm a good person at heart. What more can a fading dub ask for?

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