shadow

Joined

• started 11 topics
• posted 540 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by shadow

• 
  13

  Waiting on Jehovah

  by Puternut in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there were so many times, when things didn't seem right in the organization or congregation, or when things weren't understood, you were informed : "just wait on jehovah, or in time jehovah will make it right".

  my question becomes obscured with the fact that if in fact the elders are appointed by holy spirit, he would also direct them to make the right decisions in behalf of his congregation right?.

  but if one of the elders felt he would be directed by god, and did things in behalf of his congregation, why would he be called on the carpet?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  Isaiah 59:15-16

  And Jehovah got to see, and it was bad in his eyes that there was no justice. 16 And when he saw that there was no man, he began to show himself astonished that there was no one interposing.
• 
  25

  Letter to elders when marriage mate confess adultery

  by scrubmaster in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i understand from talking to some one who had some knowledge of the situation but could not find the reference material , that the society has something in writing which says if a person believes they are scripturally free and that they are willing to stand before jehovah and face the consquences they can get married -- (this in effect leave the elders out of the equation and they can not do anything to you.

  ) does anyone know where this reference can be found -- i need it as soon as possible.

  i can not find it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  If you still want to play by rules you could try branch again as last resort.
• 
  17

  Adultery can only happen at night - Scripture to support this statement

  by scrubmaster in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evidence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of .

  the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known homosexual ) under improper circumstances, is acceptable.

  i was told that there is a scriptural principle for the above quote from the "pay attention to the flock book".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  Are you serious?

  Actually sent to you in a letter?

  Are you able to give more of the context or would that be too revealing?
• 
  20

  Curiousity about current JW Views on going into churches

  by Brymichmom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been following a thread on another forum where jw's are insisting that it is ok for them to go inside churches for weddings, funerals, etc.

  they say it's quite ok to go inside any church just as long as they don't participate in the service by singing, praying, kneeling...etc...some of them say that they have seen "guest speakers" in churches who came as watchtower representatives.

  when did this ever change?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  *** w74 12/15 pp. 766-767 Questions from Readers ***

  Questions

  from Readers

  ?

  What is the view of Jehovah?s witnesses toward attending the wedding of a worldly acquaintance or relative?

  In the case of minors who contemplate attending, the final decision rests with the parents. Otherwise it is a matter for personal decision, with each Christian being willing to bear his own responsibility. However, there are Scriptural principles and a wide variety of circumstances that should be considered.

  The wedding ceremony may be conducted in a religious building and by a clergyman. This would make it quite different from a purely civil ceremony. A true Christian could not conscientiously join or participate in any prayers or religious exercises that he knew to be contrary to Bible teaching. Nor is he interested to see how close he can come to apostate acts without overstepping the line. He is under obligation to heed the Scriptural command: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? . . . Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? . . . ?Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,? says Jehovah, ?and quit touching the unclean thing.?"?2 Cor. 6:14-17.

  Understandably, one invited to attend a wedding of worldly relatives and acquaintances may at times be faced with quite a problem. For example, the invitation may have been extended to a Christian wife and her unbelieving husband. He may think that both of them should be present for the wedding. Yet she may be troubled about it. She may reason that, if she were to attend a church wedding, the emotional pressure of the circumstances could cause her to do something wrong. On the other hand, she might conclude that, out of regard for her husband?s wishes, she could go with him merely as a respectful observer, but being determined not to share in any religious acts.

  Regardless of how a wife might view the matter, it would be to her advantage to explain her position to her husband. If, on the basis of her explanation, he comes to the conclusion that his wife?s presence may possibly give rise to a situation unpleasant to him, he may prefer to go alone. Or, he may still want her to go with him, but as a quiet observer, in which case she will have to decide whether to go.

  Something that deserves consideration is the effect that attending a wedding in a religious building might have on fellow believers. Could it injure the conscience of some? Might their resistance to engaging in actual idolatrous acts be weakened by this action of yours? A Bible principle that comes into the picture is: "Make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ."?Phil. 1:10; see also 1 Corinthians 8:9-13.

  At times an invitation to a wedding may include being actively involved as a member of the bridal party. What if this required participation in certain religious acts? Manifestly one desiring to be pleasing to God could not share in acts of false religion; the person must act in harmony with his Word. But a Christian could explain just how he feels and point out that in no way does he want to mar the joy of the wedding day by being responsible for what might prove to be an embarrassing situation.

  In matters of this nature, Christians must carefully weigh all the factors involved. Under certain circumstances they may conclude that no difficulties would arise if they were to attend as quiet observers. On the other hand, the circumstances may be such that a Christian may reason that likely injury to his conscience or that of others by attending such worldly wedding outweighs the possible benefits of attending. Whatever the situation, the Christian should make sure that his decision will not interfere with his preserving a good conscience before God and men.
• 
  77

  Proof of adultery to get scriptural freedom

  by scrubmaster in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am in a situation where my ex-wife left me.

  i had survellaince done on her place by two members of my family.

  this was done over a several month time frame.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  Isn't there a way to just claim she confessed to you and be free in the eyes of the elders?
• 
  28

  Would you or have you used a blood tranfusion?

  by TylerMacKay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  would you or have you used a blood tranfusion since you the left the wt?

  i was wondering what your feelings are on it now

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  Rush,

  Some questions if you don't mind.

  Were you a JW? Do you know any doctors who are JW's? Do you ever have discussions about JW policy in detail? Have you had any encounters with HLC?

  I would be quite interested in how a JW doctor defends the finer points of WT policy.

  Thanks,
• 
  25

  What's Wrong With Mother's Day? I Forgot.

  by Swan in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  okay, maybe i'm getting old or maybe it's because i have been an exjw for going on 10 years now, but i can't remember what's up with jws and mother's day.

  i remember my mother going with another sister to my brother's classroom for some mother's day pageant back in the 60's when we lived in alaska.

  there is also a commandment in the bible about "honor your father and your mother.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  Some background:

  Celebrate! Holidays In The U.S.A. Mother's Day (Second Sunday in May)

  ---

  On the second Sunday in May, American children of all ages treat their mothers to something special. It is the one day out of the year when children, young and old, try to show in a tangible way how much they appreciate their mothers. England was one of the first countries to set aside a day to recognize mothers. In the eighteenth century when many people worked as household servants for the rich, "Mothering Sunday" was reserved for them to return home to be with their mothers. Though this custom stopped when the Industrial Revolution altered the working and living patterns of the people, one Sunday for Mothers was established as a holiday in the twentieth century. In the United States, Mother's Day did not become an official holiday until 1915. Its establishment was due largely to the perseverance and love of one daughter, Anna Jarvis. Anna's mother had provided strength and support as the family made their home in West Virginia and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania where her father served as a minister. As a girl, Anna had helped her mother take care of her garden, mostly filled with white carnations, her mother's favorite flower. When Mrs. Jarvis died on May 5, 1905, Anna was determined to honor her. She asked the minister at her church in West Virginia to give a sermon in her mother's memory. On the same Sunday in Philadelphia, their minister honored Mrs. Jarvis and all mothers with a special Mother's Day service. Anna Jarvis began writing to congressmen, asking them to set aside a day to honor mothers. In 1910, the governor of West Virginia proclaimed the second Sunday in May as Mother's Day and a year later every state celebrated it. On Mother's Day morning some American children follow the tradition of serving their mothers breakfast in bed. Other children will give their mothers gifts which they have made themselves or bought in stores. Adults give their mothers red carnations, the official Mother's Day flower. If their mothers are deceased they may bring white carnations to their grave sites. This is the busiest day of the year for American restaurants. On her special day, family members do not want Mom to cook dinner!

  ---

  Embassy of the United States of America
  Dag Hammarskjölds Väg 31, SE-115 89 Stockholm

  Celebrate! Holidays in the U.S.A.
  U.S. Embassy | Public Affairs Section | US Mission | Commercial Service | Agricultural Service
  Consular Information | Fulbright | U.S. State Department | Defense Department
  [email protected]

  Last Modified: Thursday, 10-Feb-2000 10:44:14 CET

  How about Father's Day?

  Celebrate! Holidays In The U.S.A. Father's Day (Third Sunday in June)

  ---

  The United States is one of the few countries in the world that has an official day on which fathers are honored by their children. On the third Sunday in June, fathers all across the United States are given presents, treated to dinner or otherwise made to feel special. . The origin of Father's Day is not clear. Some say that it began with a church service in West Virginia in 1908. Others say the first Father's Day ceremony was held in Vancouver, Washington. The president of the Chicago branch of the Lions' Club, Harry Meek, is said to have celebrated the first Father's Day with his organization in 1915; and the day that they chose was the third Sunday in June, the closest date to Meek's own birthday! Regardless of when the first true Father's Day occurred, the strongest promoter of the holiday was Mrs. Bruce John Dodd of Spokane, Washington. Mrs. Dodd felt that she had an outstanding father. He was a veteran of the Civil War. His wife had died young, and he had raised six children without their mother. In 1909, Mrs. Dodd approached her own minister and others in Spokane about having a church service dedicated to fathers on June 5, her father's birthday. That date was too soon for her minister to prepare the service, so he spoke a few weeks later on June 19th. From then on, the state of Washington celebrated the third Sunday in June as Father's Day. Children made special desserts, or visited their fathers if they lived apart. States and organizations began lobbying Congress to declare an annual Father's Day. In 1916, President Woodrow Wilson approved of this idea, but it was not until 1924 when President Calvin Coolidge made it a national event to "establish more intimate relations between fathers and their children and to impress upon fathers the full measure of their obligations." Since then, fathers had been honored and recognized by their families throughout the country on the third Sunday in June. When children can't visit their fathers or take them out to dinner, they send a greeting card. Traditionally, fathers prefer greeting cards that are not too sentimental. Most greeting cards are whimsical so fathers laugh when they open them. Some give heartfelt thanks for being there whenever the child needed Dad.

  ---

  Embassy of the United States of America
  Dag Hammarskjölds Väg 31, SE-115 89 Stockholm

  Celebrate! Holidays in the U.S.A.
  U.S. Embassy | Public Affairs Section | US Mission | Commercial Service | Agricultural Service
  Consular Information | Fulbright | U.S. State Department | Defense Department
  [email protected]

  Last Modified: Thursday, 10-Feb-2000 10:44:04 CET

  Father's Day

  The idea for an official Father’s Day celebration came to a married daughter, seated in a church in Spokane, Washington, attentive to a Sunday sermon on Mother’s Day in 1910-two years after the first Mother’s Day observance in West Virginia. The daughter was Mrs. Sonora Smart Dodd. During the sermon, which extolled maternal sacrifices made for children, Mrs. Dodd realized that in her own family it had been her father, William Jackson Smart, a Civil War veteran, who had sacrificed-raising herself and five sons alone, following the early death of his wife in childbirth. For Mrs. Dodd, the hardships her father had endured on their eastern Washington farm called to mind the unsung feats of fathers everywhere. Her proposed local Father’s Day celebration received strong support from the town’s ministers and members of the Spokane YMCA. The date suggested for the festivities, June 5, Mrs. Dodd’s father’s birthdays were three weeks away-had to be moved back to the nineteenth when ministers claimed they need extra time to prepare sermons on such a new subject as Father. Newspapers across the country, already endorsing the need for a national Mother’s Day, carried stories about the unique Spokane observance. Interest in Father’s Day increased. Among the first notables to support Mrs. Dodd’s idea nationally was the orator and political leader William Jennings Bryan, who also backed Mother’s Day. Believing that fathers must not be slighted, he wrote to Mrs. Dodd, "too much emphasis cannot be placed upon the relation between parent and child." Father’s Day, however, was not so quickly accepted as Mother’s Day. Members of the all-male Congress felt that a move to proclaim the day official might be interpreted as a self-congratulatory pat on the back. In 1916, President Woodrow Wilson and his family personally observed the day. And in 1924, President Calvin Coolidge recommended that states, if they wished, should hold their own Father’s Day observances. He wrote to the nation’s governors that "the widespread observance of this occasion is calculated to establish more intimate relations between fathers and their children, and also to impress upon fathers the full measure of their obligations." Many people attempted to secure official recognition for Father’s Day. One of the most notable efforts was made in 1957, by Senator Margaret Chase Smith, who wrote forcefully to Congress that "Either we honor both our parents, mother and father, or let us desist from honoring either one. But to single out just one of our two parents and omit the other is the most grievous insult imaginable." Eventually, in 1972-sixty-two years after it was proposed-Father’s Day was permanently established by President Richard Nixon. Historians seeking an ancient precedent for an official Father’s Day observance have come up with only one: The Romans, every February, honored fathers-but only those deceased. In America today, Father’s Day is the fifth-largest card-sending occasion, with about 85 million greeting cards exchanged.
• 
  20

  Question for Hillary or ?

  by DJ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hillary,.

  you seem rather well-educated about inside workings of the watchtower so i'm hoping that you might know the answer to my question.

  i have asked it on several threads but no one seems to know.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  Question submitted to National Clearinghouse on Child Abuse concerning clergy-penitent privilege:

  Several states exempt communications revealed in this setting.

  Do these exemptions apply only to communications from an offender?

  For example, if a child or parent revealed abuse or suspicion of abuse to a clergyman, would that clergyman be required to report this even if this occurred in a state that had the penitent exemption? Or would the clergyman be open to legal liability by reporting such communication?

  What legal liability would any person be exposed to if he were not a mandatory reporter, but made a report anyway?

  Response (Sandi Mcleod) - 07/30/2002 04:04 PM

  Thank you for contacting the Children’s Bureau.

  The National Clearinghouse on Child Abuse and Neglect Information, a service of the Children’s Bureau, has a special section of their Web site devoted to the child abuse and neglect statutes (http://www.calib.com/nccanch/statutes.index.cfm) for each State.

  Within the Reporting Laws that address Mandatory Reporters there is information on privileged communication, including the clergy-penitent privilege. This privilege is not addressed in the statutes for all of the States. For those States that do include this privilege in their statutes, the circumstances under which reporting is mandated are provided (http://www.calib.com/nccanch/pubs/stats01.mandrep.cfm). For your information, within the next couple of weeks, the Clearinghouse will be releasing a Ready Reference on the Clergy-Penitent Privilege. Please watch the Web site for this new online publication.

  In regards to the second part of your question on the liability exposure for reporting, there is immunity for reporters. Almost all States provide some form of immunity from liability for persons who in good faith report suspected child abuse or neglect under the reporting laws for the State. Immunity statutes protect reporters from civil or criminal liability that they might otherwise incur. Several States provide immunity not only for the initial report, but also during a judicial proceedings resulting from the report. To view the State Statutes for "Immunity for Reporters", please see http://www.calib.com/nccanch/pubs/stats01/immun.cfm.

  If you have further questions, please contact the Clearinghouse at their toll-free number, 1-800-394-3366, or send an e-mail to [email protected].

  I hope this information is helpful.

  The summary referred to in the above e-mail may be found at:

  http://www.calib.com/nccanch/statutes/readyreference.cfm#clergy

  Reporting Laws: Clergy as Mandated Reporters

  Clergy's Responsibility to Report

  A mandatory reporter is a person who is required to report suspected cases of child abuse and neglect. Every State and the District of Columbia have statutes identifying mandatory reporters of child maltreatment and specifying under what circumstances they are required to report.

  Approximately1 18 States (Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania and West Virginia) currently include members of the clergy among those professionals specifically mandated by those States' reporting laws to report known or suspected instances of child abuse or neglect. In approximately 18 States (Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming 2 ), any person who suspects child abuse or neglect is required to report it. That broad language appears to include clergy and anyone else, but it is possible that the language has been interpreted differently.

  Privileged Communications

  As a doctrine of some faiths, clergy have an obligation to maintain the confidentiality of pastoral communications. Mandatory reporting statutes in some States specify when a communication is privileged. "Privileged communications" is a legal term for the statutory recognition of the right to maintain the confidentiality of communications between certain persons such as professionals and their clients or patients. Privileged communications may be exempt from the reporting laws. The privilege of maintaining this confidentiality under State law must be provided by statute 3 , and most States do provide the privilege, typically in rules of evidence or civil procedure. 4 If the issue of privilege is not addressed in the reporting laws summarized here, it does not mean that privilege is not granted; it may be granted in other parts of State statutes.

  This privilege, however, is not absolute. While clergy-penitent privilege is frequently recognized within the reporting laws, it is typically interpreted narrowly in the child abuse or neglect context. The circumstances under which privilege is allowed vary from State to State, and in some States, is denied altogether. For example, among States that enumerate clergy as mandated reporters, New Hampshire and West Virginia deny the clergy-penitent privilege in cases of child abuse or neglect. Three States that enumerate "any person" as a mandated reporter (North Carolina, Rhode Island, and Texas) also deny clergy-penitent privilege in child abuse cases.

  In States where neither clergy nor "any person" are specified as mandated reporters, it is less clear whether clergy are included as mandated reporters within other broad categories of professionals who work with children. For example, Louisiana includes clergy among "mental health/social services practitioners" as mandated reporters, but excludes information given in "confession or sacred communication." However, in South Carolina and Washington, clergy are not specified as mandated reporters, but the clergy-penitent privilege is affirmed within the reporting laws.

  The chart below summarizes how States have or have not addressed the issue of clergy as mandated reporters (either specifically or as part of a broad category) and/or clergy-penitent privilege (either limiting or denying the privilege) within their reporting laws:

  	Privilege granted but limited to "pastoral communications"	Privilege denied in cases of suspected child abuse or neglect	Privilege not addressed in the reporting laws
  Clergy enumerated as mandated reporters	Arizona, California, Colorado, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania	New Hampshire, West Virginia	Connecticut, Mississippi
  Clergy not enumerated as mandated reporters but may be included with "any person" designation	Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Kentucky, Maryland, Utah, Wyoming	North Carolina, Rhode Island, Texas	Indiana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Tennessee
  Neither clergy nor "any person" enumerated as mandated reporters	Louisiana, South Carolina, Washington 5	Not applicable	Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Kansas, New York, Ohio, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, Wisconsin

  Notes

  1 The word approximately is used throughout the State Statutes series to stress the fact that statutes are constantly being revised and updated. back
  2 Two of these States, Mississippi and New Hampshire, also enumerate clergy as mandated reporters. back
  3 American Jurisprudence, 2 nd Edition, vol. 81, p. 447. Rochester, NY: Lawyers Cooperative Publishing, 1992. back
  4 The issue of clergy-penitent privilege may also be addressed in case law, which this publication does not cover. For a fuller discussion of the issues, including significant case law, see Karen L. Ross, "Revealing Confidential Secrets: Will It Save Our Children?" 28 Seton Hall Law Review 963 (1998); or J. Michael Keel, "Law and Religion Collide Again: The Priest-Penitent Privilege in Child Abuse Reporting Cases." 28 Cumberland Law Review 681. (1997-1998). back
  5 Clergy are not mandated reporters in Washington, but if they elect to report, their report and any testimony are provided statutory immunity from liability. back

  Additional Information

  • Search for State-specific information on Clergy as Mandated Reporters and/or all Reporting Laws.

  • View a listing, in PDF format, of all States' Reporting Laws: Clergy as Mandated Reporters (401 KB).
• 
  20

  Question for Hillary or ?

  by DJ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hillary,.

  you seem rather well-educated about inside workings of the watchtower so i'm hoping that you might know the answer to my question.

  i have asked it on several threads but no one seems to know.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  A good resource for the US

  http://www.calib.com/nccanch/

  This is a federal government site and includes all state statutes
• 
  70

  Sisters may pursue church case-Another Blow to the WT

  by DevonMcBride in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  judge: sisters may pursue church case

  the telegraph, feb. 26, 2003. http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/.

  by andrew wolfe, telegraph staff.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  shadow

  Is there any evidence (court transcripts, document scans, etc.) available to the public proving that Toronto or Brooklyn directed the elders in the Boer case to not report it?

  Also, how can it be verified that WTS spent $50k defending Berry? Was this raised locally, or money from Brooklyn?

  Thanks,