i have always wondered why a person can sin and not be repentant (the reason they give for df) or can disassociate oneself and the congregation is to "shun them" but.... .
someone can be a baptised witness and not go for several months start doing things that would be considered a disfellowshipping offense (ie smoking etc) but the congregation doesn't have to "shun them".
surely this is a double standard.
I have always wondered why a person can sin and not be repentant (the reason they give for DF) or can disassociate oneself and the congregation is to "shun them" but....
someone can be a baptised witness and not go for several months start doing things that would be considered a disfellowshipping offense (ie smoking etc) but the congregation doesn't have to "shun them".
Surely this is a double standard.
Bosho
i have some questions for the techies out there:.
if demons hang out on websites waiting for unwitting jws to download them when they go to that particular website, do they travel faster over highspeed lines vs phone lines?.
are demons capped at a 56k transfer rate over a phone line?
Interesting questions. All of which, I believe can be answered by watching Buffy.
I believe Moloch had it down untill Buffy kicked butt ( as usual).
Of course had Willow not been using the "evil" internet, none of this would have happened.
we have close friends who secretly became jw's.
now that they are "out" they say that war is wrong and our son shouldn't join the military.
we know that war is not what god wants, however, we need scripture to back defending our country and protecting our loved ones.
Hi funkyderek!
I'm sure there's a forum here somewhere ! But I'm too lazy to search!
Can you tell me more about this 100th Birthday do for the WBTS?
Thanks a deal!
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we have a bigg artikel in km abot our wuie on how to treat them in diffrent situations, not so much new things, but they confirm this harder treatment on dfd, as we have 1981.. not so happy for this, i think it is a bigg misstake to dont take this occasion to change to some more loving wuie.i can not follow why they do like this perhaps they are draw this to the end of the lione, but who are take the punnish for this, if not the averge jw, who i think dont like this so very much.. so i can not follow who they think, perhaps we have wolfs among us, who hurt ther members.. .
When I was a child my dad was told his sister had been disfellowshipped. dutifully he cut off all contact with her. ( I have to admit she was two hundred miles away and we didn't have a car, so it wasn't like she was next door.)
Twenty years later ( just before he died) he found out that the elders who had told him she was disfellowshiped were mistaken. (some horendous mix-up with two people at the time with the same name Who my dad both knew). She had never been disfellowshipped at all. She had just "fallen away". My aunt, who's a wonderful person, was absolutely great about it when my dad crawled back on bended knees.
But it was still twenty years too late. Twenty years wasted. None of her family ever held it against us as a family, (none of them are JW's). Heaven only knows why!
hey,.
i'm relatively new here and wondered if any ex-elders (or indeed anyone who knows) could tell me what's so secret about the "shepherd the flock" book.. what is in that book that they don't want ordinary publishers to see?.
i haven't met an elder yet that can give me a good answer as to why it's kept so quiet.. any help would be gratefully received.
Thanks everyone!
bosho
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i've only just joined but i would be grateful if you could give me some information on this ngo business.. i live in england, am completly ignorant and no nothing about the un (everything i learnt in school went in one ear and out the other as did much else i learnt!).
i would be grateful if someone could explain what ngo is exactly and how jw's were involved with it.. much appreciated.
Larc,
Duly noted, thanks for the advice.
Bsoho
this is crazy.. just go under each topic on this sight and read.
it speaks on each topic we have touched on in this forum and bascially gives thier "answer" and thoughts as silly as some are.
xandria
I have a feeling that American law is slightly different to English law.
In this country if a person goes to court they can not use past convictions or any records to convict him.
There was a case recently of a little girl called Sarah Paine who was abducted and killed. Her murderer was caught and went to court, but it wasn't until after the trial was over that the Jury and indeed the general public was allowed to find out that he had offended repeatedly before. My bug bear with this is that if a person offends once he should never be allowed to walk about in public again. But as it stands, they serve their time if they are convicted, and then allowed to be set free and reoffend, even with "supposed help".
As it stands the system just doesn't work, people like yourself and your husband do a remarkably wonderful job, and it must be heart breaking.
The problem needs to be attacked at the root, but how can that happen? Is there any behaviour in children that might point to them one day being "Abusers", is there any way it can be spotted earlier and dealt with before it can do harm?
I know a lot of people think that history repeats itself and that if a person has been abused they are more likely to abuse.... but I disagree with this, it may happen sometimes, but surly not enough to make the rule. My husband, while not being sexually abused as a child was beaten with belts, spoons and anything else that came to hand, but he has certainly not repeated history with out child.
There was a case here about ten or so years ago with a little boy called Jamie Bulger. He was abducted from a shopping center by two boys no more than twelve. They killed him and left him on some railway lines. They were sent to a children's prison.
At the time, several videos were said to have caused the children to do this. Also I believe both children had bad homelives. But the problem comes in whether these children have changed, should they be released, maybe they will never re-offend, maybe they will. Without a crystal ball it's something that can't be discovered until it might be too late. There seems to be no answers to these problems (Except God, hopefully).
I don't know if you would agree with this, but I certainly feel that a lot of what children are exposed to does have an adverse affect on them. My friends little girls were watching "Tom and Jerry" cartoons (She's nearly five and her sister is nearly four) my friend suddenly became aware that the older girl was banging the younger one on the head with a saucepan she had taken from the cupboard (part of their drum kit usualy!) she stopped her and asked her why she was doing it and the girl replied "I'm Tom and she's Jerry". My friend hasn't let them watch cartoons since. I know we can't completely shield our children from everything, but maybe what they see does have a bearing on how they act later on in life.
I don't know about the Samantha Runnion case, was this in the states?
Communities working together is definitly a start to protecting our children. In this country we have a thing called "neighbourhood watch", which while originaly worked to protect against burglary, now extends (in our estate anyway) to keeping an eye on our children. (A child just has to cry and curtains are twitching) We are working to get a community room that the children can use to socialise together so they don't play on the streets, which is a real danger, not only for getting knocked over but for being snatched from the streets. Everyone has to be prepared to step in and help though. We can't rely on the authorities for protection all the time. In this country we have a real problem with not enough police, under paid police with too much on their hands already.
I have to admit that I can see no real long term answer, except the solution that God will step in and sort things out. But in the mean time there does have to be a change structurally to our laws.
In your P.S. you say that the police have the right to send someone for Observation, does this apply in England too? I was very interested to read that as I was not aware they could do this. It would certainly help.
hey,.
i'm relatively new here and wondered if any ex-elders (or indeed anyone who knows) could tell me what's so secret about the "shepherd the flock" book.. what is in that book that they don't want ordinary publishers to see?.
i haven't met an elder yet that can give me a good answer as to why it's kept so quiet.. any help would be gratefully received.
RandomTask
Yeah, you're right!
See, if the society isn't a "secret society" why can't we all get a look at this book?
.
i've only just joined but i would be grateful if you could give me some information on this ngo business.. i live in england, am completly ignorant and no nothing about the un (everything i learnt in school went in one ear and out the other as did much else i learnt!).
i would be grateful if someone could explain what ngo is exactly and how jw's were involved with it.. much appreciated.
Hawkaw
Thanks a lot for putting it so clearly for me! ;-)
The way you put that has helped me a great deal. Told you I was slow and needed it spelt out for me!
The timing is crucial isn't it?
Kinda puts me in mind of the boy caught with his pants down!
I have a meeting with an Elder Thursday, to "put all this to him". I have a feeling that words like "Marked" or "disapproved" will be uttered from the platform soon after.
I will post here exactly what reply he makes to all this. Should be interesting, unless he's like me and goes "Oh my GOD! I got it wrong all these years!"
hey,.
i would be grateful to anyone who could give me some feed back on the "one witness policy".. i can't get over how if someone is convicted by a court of law for abuse, but denies it to the elders then they can't be disfellowshipped.
i've spoken to most of my family over this and several elders, they (mostly, apart from the true die-hards) all find it hard to accept.. surely this is no different from the catholics who don't ex-communicate.. surely they have to do something about this.. .
Hey,
I would be grateful to anyone who could give me some feed back on the "One Witness Policy".
I can't get over how if someone is convicted by a court of law for abuse, but denies it to the elders then they can't be disfellowshipped. I've spoken to most of my family over this and several elders, they (mostly, apart from the true die-hards) all find it hard to accept.
Surely this is no different from the Catholics who don't ex-communicate.
Surely they have to do something about this.
