Posts by robhic

60

What's so bad about Satan?

by robhic in

why is satan supposed to be so bad?

he gets the blame, sure, but what does he explicitly do?

that god had?

So at this point in the thread, it seems to my way of thinking that satan just doesn't "make the cut" as the consumate, evil, vile scumbag he is always portrayed to be. Other than some weak attempts by a few to justify satan as the master of all bad things, it just hasn't been effectively proven.

SATAN:

He doesn't really kill anyone
He is blamed for most everything bad (as he still is today)
He doesn't really lie and where he does, it is a minor deal. No worse than "theocratic warfare" (an acceptable lie) would be
He did some ugly things but no one said he was perfect...

GOD:

Responsible -- directly or indirectly -- for killing thousands (millions?) of people
Gets credit for all good things, no matter who does them or why
Lied, at least, to Adam & Eve (no matter how the apologists try to spin it...) and seemingly to others
Did horrible, reprehensible, violent things on the level of the modern Holocaust --- yet he is said to be perfect. ) Perfect what, killing machine?

So it looks like satan has been getting the blame for everything bad (because people still fail to take responsibility and blaming someone else is easier) and god gets al the credit for everything good. This is just too simple-minded. Like someone pointed out, satan is only as bad as god makes him. Can't be such a good person unless you have someone to pin the bad stuff on!

Good discussion and I appreciate everyone's input. If satan would run for elected office, just think of the possibilities!

60

What's so bad about Satan?

by robhic in

why is satan supposed to be so bad?

he gets the blame, sure, but what does he explicitly do?

that god had?

robhic

Golf:

Robhic, what's so 'good' about satan? If two wrongs don't make a right, then, where does this put satan and God?

Not sure I quite understand the point, but I won't say satan is "good" only that when compared to the god of the bible, satan seems a whole lot less violent and mean-spirited. But then he gets the blame for everything.

Shining One:

Why did I already know that you would ignore the point and try to further defend your own weak argument?

I don't know. Maybe because you're clairvoyant? Self-righteous by thinking your argument was so powerful? I don't know. Did god tell you?

...He is in control of His creation yet at the same time creation that is 'in His image', are free moral agents. He sets the rules: we play by them and that is the end of the argument.

I think someone else addressed this point. That's kind of a sucky arrangement. I am "free" to do what? Whatever I want? No! To do whatever I am told are "the rules" and if I don't play nice, I get killed. Like all the women and babies in the bible, I might add. Still sucks.

Why can't I live life the way I want to? If I make any serious transgressions or break laws here, the authorities on earth will deal with my felonious actions. If I want to eat shellfish, work on the sabbath (when is it, anyway, Saturday or Sunday?), fondle an unmarried woman or other things of a like nature, why do I need killin' ? I don't think so...

60

What's so bad about Satan?

by robhic in

why is satan supposed to be so bad?

he gets the blame, sure, but what does he explicitly do?

that god had?

robhic

BlessedStar:

From your alias, I had a feeling you would post the thoughts you did. And you are welcome to your beliefs as I am to mine.

But ..... do you realize that your post proves out exactly what my point was? Satan gets the blame for all things which people won't take responsibility for. "God is good" yet he killed thousands upon thousands of people. Do I believe in punishment? You bet I do! But I wouldn't kill my daughter for stealing pocket change from my dresser or coming home late. Would you?

And you may want to check your facts a little closer. People never did and probably never will live for 900 years! Not even close. The atmosphere back then would have probably shortened lives not lengthened them so outrageously.

But thanks for your thoughts.

21

Great quote from C.S. Lewis

by Shining One in

"my argument against god was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust.

but how had i got this idea, just and unjust?

a man does not call a crooked line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line.

robhic

I will take that one step further. We cannot assume, (as a materialist does) that the supernatural, (anything that is outside of our senses or ways of measurement and method of science) does not exist.

Hey Shining One. If I told you that a certain flavor or brand of frozen yogurt could make you invisible, would you just believe me or would you require proof?

60

What's so bad about Satan?

by robhic in

why is satan supposed to be so bad?

he gets the blame, sure, but what does he explicitly do?

that god had?

robhic

There are two children playing innocently in their home. This home was made specifically to keep them from harming themselves and the parents only had one rule. Do not drink the fluid that is on such and such shelf. They are forewarned that the fluid will harm them irreparably and also ruin their comfy habitat. The parents have employed a sitter to watch over them, paying that person and giving them responsibility. The parents want the children to learn to be responsible on their own but not HARM themselves.

:

Your analogy is similar but the fact of the matter would seem to me to be, as Shawn 10538 points out, what kind of dumbass parent would acquire or make a fatal potion and leave it in sight of their children with only a warning? Not too smart for something supposedly credited with creating the whole world. Why not start with cookies or something non-toxic in case the children don't listen? Who would be careless enough to make the kids' first test a lethal one? Jeez, some freak there! And how would you teach them about fire? Or the dangers of walking in front of a moving car, should they pass the "deadly fluid" test?

And who exactly is this babysitter you mention? I don't remember anyone in the "garden" besides Adam & Eve. Are you calling a talking snake a babysitter? Again, what kind of kook would leave a talking snake (!!!) to watch their kids? Snakes don't know nothing about kids!

Tetrapod and Shawn, good points. Tetra you really have a way with words! All of this discussion is giving satan some good press. Like Gary Buss said -- I like the character satan much better than that of god. Satan is much less violent.

60

What's so bad about Satan?

by robhic in

why is satan supposed to be so bad?

he gets the blame, sure, but what does he explicitly do?

that god had?

robhic

Well, that depends on the way you look at it…

Could it be that when God created Adam and Eve he intended for them to live forever? If you look at it that way, then God did not lie, since Adam and Eve did die. Not right away, but eventually they did.

Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. [ASV]

What other way can you look at it? It says in no uncertain terms "...in the day that thou eatest...". Sounds pretty straightforward to me...

60

What's so bad about Satan?

by robhic in

why is satan supposed to be so bad?

he gets the blame, sure, but what does he explicitly do?

that god had?

robhic

Adam said, "The woman that you gave me, she gave to me and I ate." And the arrogant ruler cursed the woman.

Nark:

OK, so you had to overshadow my opinionated post with real scholarship! But the excerpt above just re-iterates the "blame the other guy" philosophy that seems, again in my opinion, to be the reason for satan's being. You can't have "good" unless you have "bad" to contrast it with. Presto! Satan is the result.

60

What's so bad about Satan?

by robhic in

why is satan supposed to be so bad?

he gets the blame, sure, but what does he explicitly do?

that god had?

robhic

Why is satan supposed to be so bad? What did he actually do? He gets the blame, sure, but what does he explicitly do? Can’t explain why you did something bad? Blame the devil. An excuse.

He tempted Adam & Eve by telling them the truth! If they ate from the tree they would be the equal of god. Is this true? They ate from the tree. God got pissed and threw them out. (Now, did they possess the same knowledge, attributes, etc. that god had? I don’t know that part, it’s all about them getting tossed from the garden. But I digress.)

If they did have all god’s attributes, why could he so handily bounce them from the garden? Why didn’t they fight back? There were two of them. In any case, god said if and when they ate from the tree they would die. But they lived another 900 or so years. So who lied? Not satan...

And the bit about tempting jesus. So what? He tempted him, jesus declined the offer, no-harm-no foul as far as I can see. What does satan actually do that makes him so bad?

Tell folks to slaughter women and children (but keeping the more attractive women for wives)? Destroy whole towns or civilizations? Kill 70,000 people because some guy took a census and a myriad of other nasty things? No, it was god (the one who supposedly loves everyone) doing this! Not satan...

God does all the reprehensible things but satan gets blamed for stuff only because he seems to be a handy scape goat the way I see it. Gotta have someone or somewhere to place blame. It seems satan is just a convenient excuse for taking responsibility oneself. And just for trying to make people more aware that the being they worship is an egomaniacal, self-focused, jealous, petty, vicious, capricious, mysoginistic, racist who insists that you base your whole life, without question, on his rules exclusively or he’ll kill you. Some choice. One lies yet says it is impossible for him to do so and one doesn’t lie but is called the "Father of the Lie." Say what?

9

Circuit Assembly Program for 2006 service year

by TheListener in

in the august 2005 kingdom ministry.

new circuit assembly program.

during the final days of this corrupt old world, it is vital that we maintain our spiritual attire and safeguard our christian identity.

robhic

Second Day:
9. How important is it to use our tongue aright?

This could open the door for some interesting answer(s) by some demon-possessed, worldly scum!

"Well, I feel my wife's / husband's use of the tongue to be a source of constant pleasure. What a wonderful gift from jehoobah!"

23

If you were God, would you want to be worshipped?

by rebel8 in

if i was the god of the bible, i think my priorities would be to set the ground rules of life and manage the planet, ensuring life is good.

i cannot envision any reason to desire worship.

appreciation, yes.

robhic

"Worship" seems to indicate that the person/entity being worshipped is 1) a bit insecure and 2) probably has a large ego.

I think "respect" would be sufficient to show appreciation for things received from this person/entity. Treatment as one deserving (note deserving...) respect, good feelings and such. Respect is earned. Worship is usually demanded or co-ersed.