Posts by starScream

30

Resurection of "Can any believer answer this?"

by Chap in

hi all.. there was an interesting thread a while back that i have a few things to add to.

i am new so i didn't know if anyone would see a post i would put there since the thread happened a few months ago.

it is going to take a while to put all my thoughts on the subject.

starScream

What about the rest of us? We had no choice and yet still suffer. How is this fair?

So you want God to rule because you see that we suck at it? Man is causing us to suffer. We have inherrited a world that has been corrupted by the devil and man. God gracefully gave man and satan a perfect heaven and a perfect world. We did not deserve a perfect world, yet we still had one. We have ruined it and kicked God out by rebelling. Blame man. Blame the devil.

Now I will pre-empt the next challenge which is, it still wouldn't be a perfect world even if man acted much better. This is true. Unfortunately this contradicts another challenge againt God that already exists. According to John Lennon and his lackies if you can Imagine a perfect world maybe we can make it happen. God still has to let them be proven wrong. Man will not stop challenging God untill he fails. This should be obvious by now. God must satisfy all challenges so that he doesn't give the appearence of being a tyrant.

30

Resurection of "Can any believer answer this?"

by Chap in

hi all.. there was an interesting thread a while back that i have a few things to add to.

i am new so i didn't know if anyone would see a post i would put there since the thread happened a few months ago.

it is going to take a while to put all my thoughts on the subject.

starScream

I would have done things way different as God.

There is no shortage of people or devil's that think they know better than God. The Devil beat you to rebellion. He stood up before anyone else to challenge God. God must deal with his challenge first. So take a number, get in line, and then on Judgement day you can tell God how wrong he is all you want. Maybe he can convince you better than I can that he is smarter than all of us.

You have to understand that once people and devil's start posing challenges to God he is going to have a tough time satisfying everyone because each challenge will require completely different actions to satisfy the challenge and prove the challenge false. There are now countless numbers of people that challenge the way God dealt with challenge.

This may seem like a copout, but God can do whatever he wants, and no one would know. If this isn't a good idea, then how about punish the perpetrators only

How does killing someone who poses a challenge prove them wrong? People have accused God on this board as being a tyrant. How would simply killing the perpetrator on the spot prove that that person's way was not a good way?

The whole thing about us inheriting sin is a bunch of BS. We did nothing to deserve punishment for THEIR sins.

Once again. Lets make sure we don't blame anyone except God. Adam chose to go along with Eve instead of God. So you would have God just kill them? What has God proven? That he can kill someone if they go against him? Adam and Eve chose to have kids. If you can't accept the fact that man inherrited sin then you are just in denial. Man has proven himself quite evil. This goes back to what the devil posed to God. God had a perfect plan for man and man chose his own course just like the devil. God must prove the devil wrong. Man is proving the devil wrong for God. When man finally fails completely God will get his chance to show that his way works better than what the devil came up with.

If you want to blame someone for your situation, that is fine. Just make sure it is the right person. You have still yet to come up with another way for God to prove the devil wrong. Simply killing them and wiping out our memories so that we don't challenge the rebellion is a form of deception. God does not need to be a coward. He knows he is right. He has no reason to be afraid of a challenge.

30

Resurection of "Can any believer answer this?"

by Chap in

hi all.. there was an interesting thread a while back that i have a few things to add to.

i am new so i didn't know if anyone would see a post i would put there since the thread happened a few months ago.

it is going to take a while to put all my thoughts on the subject.

starScream

I'd create man, let him be influenced by the devil. Then I'd proceed to inflict punishment on his descendants for the next 6,000 years.

Man's suffering is at the hands of man. I already stated that the devil insisted to God that man should rule himself. Man chose. The responsibilty for our current condition is not a result of God's will. It is a result of the rebellion against God's will. God left this equation to honor the objection that was raised.

The other problem that you don't realize is that when God said that man will rule himself MAN WILL RULE HIMSELF. He can't just take it back he has given the authority over. He would be breaking the deal, then someone else like you can say look this is a God that does not honor contracts.

So one way or the other MAN will ALWAYS rule himself. God will always honor the contract. We just need to elect a Man that has shown that he can be a perfect ruler. I have already cast my vote. I'm sure you can guess which man I voted for.

Go ahead, attack God again. Do it. Take the devil's side. Just make sure that you never under any circumstance give God the slightest benefit of the doubt. That would be rebelling against satan.

30

Resurection of "Can any believer answer this?"

by Chap in

hi all.. there was an interesting thread a while back that i have a few things to add to.

i am new so i didn't know if anyone would see a post i would put there since the thread happened a few months ago.

it is going to take a while to put all my thoughts on the subject.

starScream

Chap and Abaddon, more to Abbadon though since you seem to have sympathy for the devil.

You both make good points. I think you are both making things a little more complicated than they need to be. About God establishing his authority I will just say this:

God is God. He did not rise to power. He created everything that exists apart from himself. If we can agree that originally he made things perfect in the heavens then we should have no reason to believe that God was not the rightful ruler. If we cannot agree based on those perameters then who ever has the right to rule or decide the way things should be? If you think under those circumstances that God does not know what is best and have the justified right to establish that fact then you are posing a challenge based on your own groundless authority. I am not accusing you of this but if this is your position you are being a hypocrite for accusing God of something you are doing. This is what the devil did. This challenges God's authority.

Now here is the problem. Given this circumstance how would it satisfy you that God was the correct authority? Would you endorse the devil's objections, and everyone else's? God would be agreeing with the devil that God does not know best and is not the correct authority. God knows this is not true and would be calling himself wrong and a liar. Therefore he must insist on his authority.

So that others know that what the devil is doing is wrong he calls the devil wrong. Would you at this point have God kill the devil? What about the next person like you that says God should not have killed the devil because it wasn't proven that the devil was wrong? Do you see the problem? The solution cannot be made to satisfy all possible objections yet.

So how would prove the devil wrong for his rebellion? Any ideas? God continued creating and created man. The devil seeing the opportunity for more rebellion poses the challenge to God that man should rule himself. What would you do at this point? Would you satisfy the objection and NOT act in a way that you can be accused as a tyrant? God allowed it that if man rebels against him then man can rule himself. You seem to think that God should simply intercede at every moment without ever letting the consequences of rebellion be known. The consequences of rebelling against God are chaos, pain, confusion, hate, pride....... God did not create these things. Those that rebelled created them. By simply allowing persons the freedom to rebel God proves himself right by the outcome of ungodly authorities.

You tell me how God can make creatures with truly freewill and prove his authority when they rebel in some other way that is more to your satisfaction.

13

A JW Belief I still hold on to

by ApagaLaLuz in

all this talk of wwiii has really got to me to thinking.

i still hold strong beliefs against world divisions.

the belief that the jws teach of a world-wide unity is one that still apeals to me very much.

starScream

Wow, apparently the Watchtower thinks that not only is the white race supreme the Aryans are superior over the Jews.

While it is true that the white race exhibits some qualities of superiority over any other, we are to remember that there are wide differences in the same Caucasian (Semitic and Aryan) family; and also we should remember that some of the qualities which have given this branch of the human family its preeminence in the world

Sig Heil!!!! Deutchland Uber Alles Mein Fuhrer!! What was Hitler's Problem with J-Dubs, if anything he ripped them off!

57

Verses that bothered you as a JW

by JH in

we find god's name "jehovah" so many times in the old testament, but not at all in the new testament.

jesus is called a "mighty god" in the bible.

jesus is also called "father".

starScream

Logan, first of all what do you know about hell?

Oh yes, damning people forever in a burning Hell is much more logical than the JW version of destruction

Just like everyone else you over simplify the issue. I wish I didn't have to just say the same thing to you that you just replied to.

1) hell is separation from God.

2) in hell people will receive payment for the works they have performed in life. Justice will be done. everyone will be made to understand that it IS justice. you will not be punished for anything you have not done. If you have done no wrong then you don't need to worry. If you did something wrong in your life and want forgiveness Yashua will forgive you, if you put your faith in him.

Logic is a tool used to search for the truth. God does not need to search for the Truth. How powerful will your logic seem to God?

25

Sorry to do this!!!!!!!!!!

by REALNESS in

the following e-mail was sent to the admin to post for me since my account had been deleted.

it has not been posted, so i have registered just for this one post.

let me say i am not trying to cause disruption to the board and i do not wish this to be seen as a personal attack on anyone, but i also dont want to be known as another jw that posts and runs with his tail behind his legs that i have no doubt already been labled.

starScream

Moulhie,

you were probably removed because people didn't think you were a real JW and that is not fair to JWs if you are pretending to be one. It undermines the crediblity of the board.

I personally don't know if you are or not. I have my doubts.

I do think that you should be allowed to post here and I was disappointed that some people chose to make vulgar posts as their response. If you are a real JW then I am glad you are here, we need someone to bash.

29

Name just ONE...

by Brummie in

name just one doctrine the society has been consistent with?

i can only think of their teaching of hell/sheol/soul...bet y'all cant think of another one .

eg....blood...never been consistent, couldnt have a single drop, can now have particles.... 1914 return of christ...began as 1874 ...was the beginning of the generation that would see the end yada.

starScream

Maybe they will discover knew light that tells them the light doesn't get brighter.

57

Verses that bothered you as a JW

by JH in

we find god's name "jehovah" so many times in the old testament, but not at all in the new testament.

jesus is called a "mighty god" in the bible.

jesus is also called "father".

starScream

Taz,

Im not a JW, I agree that some of what they teach concerning what you are talking about makes no sense and is in fact wrong.

The way they teach it, yes it is illogical. Partly because they make up their own rules concerning salvation and righteousness.

What you are arguing can also be applied to what the bible teaches. Unless you have faith in Christ for salvation you will go to hell. At first this does not make sense. It does make sense though if you realize that hell is just the payment for ones works. You get what you have earned in Hell. The people that go to heaven don't get what they have earned. This is similar to the Presidential pardon. The President, for his own reasons, pardons some people of the same crimes that he punishes others for. He pardons his freinds mostly and no one can stop him from doing it. The other criminals have no moral protest though because they are only getting what they have earned.

I absolutely agree with you though that the Watchtower's Armageddon crap about it not being fair was a major concern for me for a long time, part of the reason I left. The reason I am satisfied with Christianity's take on salvation is it is not up to humans to sell magazines in order to save people. If the WTS held Christianity's position they could not make their subjects blood guilty and force them to sell more hours a month lest they die at Armageddon. One reason for their obvious confusion I'm sure.

63

attention apostasy sucks.

by MOLHIE-NIGG in

oh after my last posts i had great fun reading the response's that were posted.

i am just trying to figure out what is wrong with you people, your'e response's are predictable and indeed amusing in many cases.

the first hint a someone defending and apparently being a jw and the 3 camps come out of the woodwork with their charm and tact to help a the poor jw realize the truth for what it is.

starScream

About false prophecies.

I remember the first time I heard the refference to 1975 in detail. We were at the Hall in the back in the secondary school because we had arrived late. We were just getting up to go out to the main area. I was with my mother and sister. The guy giving the talk, right before the theocratic ministry school, made a refference to mistakes concerning 1975. It was just a brief reffernece but I believe the context was on making speculation outside of the information provided by the society. There was an immediate gasp in the audience, you could feel it although no one said anything.

Me and my sister ( i was about 13 and she was like 11) instantly turned to my mom and and blurted out "what happened in 1975?" as we were very curious about what he meant by that. She knew that she shouldnt dodge the question and because we asked 3 times in 2 seconds she just blurted out that "some of the brothers thought armageddon was going to come in 1975." Me and my sister said "WHAT!?!". We just sat there looking at eachother. We knew that they were hiding something and that there was a lot more to this issue. The fact that I had NEVER heard of this before yet it was obviuos that many people knew about it and reacted the way they did really raised my awareness.

That was the first time I had ever heard of anything from the Watchtower that raised questions on its credibility. This was about 10 years ago.