hello Tefcat.
Codeblue: your avatar made me think my vision was distorted :)
gitasatsangha
JoinedPosts by gitasatsangha
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16
Welcome Tefcat!!!!
by Gadget inplease welcome my friend tefcat to the board!.
although never a jw, me and her have talked a lot about religion/faith and such, and i'm sure she'll be able to contribute a lot to some of the discussions on here.
and she's helped me out a great deal too..........
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31
Partisan bickering
by avishai ini am so sick of the "team" mentality on both sides.
for instance, i am a fiscal conservative, right?
but the conservatives in office are spending like drunken sailors.
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gitasatsangha
There are alternatives to Dumb and Dumber
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This is about out beloved Dansk
by mouthy inhow sorry i was to hear from dansk-he is going through a very difficult time.. i would like all prayers, thoughts, please keep this in mind ____ for me!!!!.
the sad news he has cancer.it is lymphoma!!!
they are waiting on the results of the biopsy before determining treatment..... he didnt want me to say anything at first- as he feels you all have your own problems & he didnt want to upset anyone-because he says "they are dear friends".
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gitasatsangha
Ian,
You will be very much in my thoughts. I hope the treatment goes well and begins quickly. It can be beaten.
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My sad start to the day.
by Lehaa into all you animal lovers out there.. i awoke this morning to find that my dog had passed away during the night.. he was a golden retriever cross and the baby of the family.
he loved the kids and would lie down so my 2 year old could sit and lie on him.. he dug out of the back yard and got into my gardening stuff.
he ate half a box of snail bait.. i'm feeling really guilty, sould not have left it out.
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gitasatsangha
Lehaa,
I'm sorry your friend and pet has passed on. It is probably no comfort, but he did go away, doing what dogs like to do best: poking around in places they're not supposed to be. It wasn't your fault. It's jsut something that happened.
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It's Time to Find New Vistas
by Farkel ini cannot compete with threads anymore.
they beat me!
threads about pit bulls and other dogs and virginity get all the attention.
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gitasatsangha
$5 says you'll drift back in in 9-12 months.
If not, good luck.
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To my dear brothers and sisters
by Vivamus indid that gave you the creeps?
for the past three weeks i have been home, on sickleave.
nothing serieus, just uncomfy.
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gitasatsangha
Vivamus,
I hope you get to feeling better. There is some kinda bond, I guess. I'm not the most well known person around here, but I have always liked reading the posts here, and to a certain degree, I think I know many of you better then I ever knew the empty suits and dresses in the Kingdumb Hall.
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Does anybody here speak Esperanto?
by caballoSentado injust curious.... i learned when i was 17 years old, when i was a jw .
(against their rules).
i still can read it.... i like artificial languages.
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gitasatsangha
Gxis Revidi.
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Does anybody here speak Esperanto?
by caballoSentado injust curious.... i learned when i was 17 years old, when i was a jw .
(against their rules).
i still can read it.... i like artificial languages.
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gitasatsangha
Bonan Tagon! Mi paroladas la esperanton, sed malbona.
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Lurkers! The Watchtower's Hour of Test is Here
by metatron inwhile the watchtower is asset rich, contributions are another matter entirely.
passive-aggressive witnesses are skipping.
meetings and walking past lonely contribution boxes.
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gitasatsangha
Nathan,
My mistake. I did mean trademark, sorry. "True Faith Jehovahs Witnesses" exist, apparently without having to change their name in Romania, and they are schismatic, so probably it isnt as much a problem as I had thought.
Your thoughts of enough people altering reality are interesting. They have really given me pause to think and put some things together in my mind, tonight. Most will think I am a looney for what I am about to type, and that is ok. It's a benign sort of loonyness.
I think it is rather apparent from some of the symbology they have snuck into their illustrations, that at least someone up in Bethel understands certain Rosicrucian/Golden Dawn symbologies, or if they don't understand them, they've at least seen them and use them to communicate something. When I say that, I am not trying to sound like a nutty conspiracy theorist. I have been a member of a western-esoteric Order for awhile, (I know, I am somewhat eclectic, but a fella has to make up for lost time), and I have run into some of these things, though used completely differently. Anyway, if someone, or some people, at the top of the org, were in fact "Left Hand Path" mystics who believed in some sort of Thelemic "power of will" to influence events, then they'd probably feel they had an absolute need to keep such information subrosa.
evidences:
repeated use (and it has been documented here, enough) of occult symbollogy hidden in Watchtower Society publication illustrations. Fixation on ancient Egypt by Russell. Primative gerematria openly used in many of the society's books, even later ones like the Revelaton Climax book. Fixation on Tetragrammaton (the top of the qaballistic Tree of Life). Using Johannes Greber's translation. Focus of Jehovah's "home world" at Alcyone. "Golden Age" magazine.
my hypothesis:
Russell almost had to be familiar with burgeoning Rosicrucian societies in Pennsylvania during the late 1900's and early 20th century. I believe he may have been in contact with Swynebourne Clymer, imperator of the Fraternitas Rose Croix, a somewhat rogue order, which still exists today (current head of the order still lives in the Beverly Hall complex, in Pennsylvania). Russell's tombstone is often thought to be Masonic, and that may be so, but Masonic and Rosicrcucian symbollogy often borrow from one another.
Russell went off on a tangent of his own. He wasn't interested in running a secret society, and a more open one seemed to coalesce around his publishing of the Watch Tower. He became a defacto religous leader. His organization, though a bit odd, was nothing like the monster juggernaut that Rutherford would help turn it into. And behind Rutherford, especially in his later years, and really even now after his death, you have the theological pinnings of Freddie Franz.
By the 30's, the esoteric schools were branching off into two different directions. The Golden Dawn temples were almost all gone, with the members having gone to form other societies. In America AMORC and Clymer's FRC were pedantically duking it out in the press. Remember this was a time when fraternal socities were still rather popular as compared to today, where they are at best met with a snicker, and worst with fear. Its not at all unreasonable to assume that many members of these groups joined the JW's/Bible Students do to the take on the Pyramid, numerology, etc.
The bad boy of esotericism, Crowley, was starting to write certain things about the power of will.. Meanwhile the JW's were launching "The Golden Age" magazine, which openly talked of Jehovah living in Alcyone, and recommended the demon-channelling book Angels and Women. http://www.premier1.net/~raines/review.html . I personally thing they may very well be practising Enochian Magick, but I have no proof. Enochian Magick is fairly controverisal, even among esoteric groups. Some believe its a method of contacting angels and basically getting information out of them, others regard it as a dangerous mind-toy that is misused more often then not, and best avoided.
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Lurkers! The Watchtower's Hour of Test is Here
by metatron inwhile the watchtower is asset rich, contributions are another matter entirely.
passive-aggressive witnesses are skipping.
meetings and walking past lonely contribution boxes.
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gitasatsangha
The Watchtower could let go of its hold on congregations, by various means, the most easiest being the dissolution of the Service Department. Without the system of Circuit, District, and Zone oversears, there would be no channel of hierarchy to "the Mother". But I doubt they would do that. Halls owe the Building fund a lot of money, essentially just bricks in the pyramid scheme that is Watchtower Bethel.
But what could happen is a popular uprising of congregations, essentially schism. As I understand it, at least in america, most of the Halls are legally independant corportations. This removes all liability for their actions and indebitures from the Watchtower Society. The WTS is in the catbird seat, because it can control dogma, denie elder appointments, and at the same time skim the proffits by encourageing congregations to build halls they can't pay for without massive debt to the WTS. Voila: Feudalism. But turnabout is fairplay, and if these congregations had suitable will and alternative leadership, they could, in a crisis point, go rogue and sever all ties to the WTS.
What would they loose? The name Jehovahs Witnesses for starters. WTS has a copyright on "Jehovahs Witnesses". So you won't see "Reformed Jehovahs Witnesses" or anything like that. Looking from past breakaway groups, the might resort to being called Bible Students. But JW mythology runs deep, and by now most JWs are indoctrinated to thinking they SHOULD take the name Jehovah's Witnesses based on an odd interpretation of an obscure scipture in Isaiah. In religion, symbolism is everything. Takingt away the JW name is a bit like having the Vatican have a copyright on the crucifix, and only allow its use to groups it approves of with adequate funding. It might work out different depending in which country one is in, so perhaps one might see, say, a massive break of congregations in Japan over some issue like alternative military service, wheras even the most disgruntled congregational bodies in America keep on keepin' on, for nothing better then a name.
What would they loose next? Literature. Jehovahs Witnesses are fueled on rehashing of the same theological pablum over decades, and with the passing of Fred Franz, there truly is "nothing new under the sun" for the Witnesses. Could schismatic congregations survive the adaptation into a more bible based sect? Would the end up resembling the Christadelphians or anabaptists? Its interesting to speculate, but I doubt we'll see that happen because:
What would they loose finally? All reason for existance. There's a reason that bible student groups haven't done very well without the iron grip of Bethel. With Bethel, JWs are a dangerous cult propelled by strict allegience to what is felt to be "The Faithful and Discreet Slave". Older Bible Student groups basically believe that Pastor Russell was the FDS, so they are locked into a pattern and cannot change much, they cannot grow or appeal to anyone beyond their original members and descendants. Any newer Bible Student groups don't even have THAT. They'd basically have a vast array of unsupportable doctrine on their hands, and without some kind of unforseen new ideas and leadership (as opposed to the despicable idea of "headship"), schismatic JW congregations would not be able to offer much that other more established Christian sects could not offer better.
So perhaps the downright abysmal leadership at Bethel WILL oneday upset enough people that the congregations walk out on it. I don't think that Bethel would ever set them loose on their own. There's money AND power to be lost. But I also doubt the that "Prague Spring" of such congregations would last long. It would be the dying gasp of a unmourned beast.
-The Git
If you favor lower government spending, retaining your inalienable rights, and getting our brothers and sisters out of the morass of Iraq, please consider Libertarian candidate Michael Badnarik for President of the United States. Thank You!