Posts by bebu

24

Religions are supposed to breed happiness. Why do they not do that?

by SpannerintheWorks in

jw
friends

from the jw's to the catholics, happiness is promised!

religions are supposed to breed happiness.

spanner

bebu

Where did this statement come from? I’ve never heard of this idea before, that religion is supposed to breed happiness. I’ve heard variations on it, though, all patently false as well, like "Christianity is supposed to make you happy" or even "God is supposed to make you happy." Ummm, is there a verse in the Bible I’m unaware of that states this? It might be near, "Godliness is next to cleanliness"... ( Or, it might be near "he who laughs last, thinks the slowest.")

I think we are not to pursue happiness, from a Christian point of view. We are to pursue holiness, and if we do that, joy is a natural by-product. Holiness is spiritual health, as GOD defines it--not me.

Joy and happiness are different things to me. It seems like splitting hairs, maybe, but happiness is usually related to circumstance, and it fades when the circumstances change. Joy has deeper roots, and it looks farther than current circumstances to a Reality.

E.g., When Paul and Barnabas were flogged and jailed, they sang. They believed in the reality--historical reality--of the resurrection of Jesus, and they realized that no matter what happened to them on earth, they were overcomers with Christ. Flogging shouldn't make anyone happy--but they had joy, --I've personally met with folks from Romania, China, Uganda, and Ethiopia who've spent years in prison--but were extremely joyful people. It is a miracle.

I think that some ideas about original sin are twisted. This situation is like a genetic birth defect, and it isn't the child's fault that s/he has this condition. But it is a serious and real condition nonetheless. Doctors can perform operations to correct spina, and an infant's life is saved. The parents act to save the child, without waiting for the child to grow up so they can explain what the whole problem is.

Likewise, I personally believe that the death of Christ cancelled out original sin and completely prevents judgment on this basis, as we did not choose this condition. God is glad to give grace and mercy, and Jesus said that the Kingdom of God belongs to the childlike.

I have a darling 3-year old, who unfortunately has a bit of a temper. Yes, she has a sin nature, like me. She isn't old enough to understand right or wrong very well; I'm usually quite patient with her--so, how could God be less patient with her than I am?? He is my model; I'm not His model.

...Teaching kids that they are NOT sinners is actually teaching a false reality. It isn't a put-down of a child. When our own kids do wrong, we tell them to apologize. We teach them to forgive others. We remind them that God forgave them, and their own healing is in forgiving others. Refusing to accept that sin exists in kids doesn't fix anything.

...The only real issue is for those old enough to make choices to decide between submitting to God or keeping on as captain of their souls. However that choice is presented in an individual's life. It is impossible for a person who doesn't know what the choices are to go and pretend to be ignorant.

LK 12:47 "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. [48] But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

I trust that God will be perfectly merciful to those who will accept it. I am not at all worried about little children--anywhere in the world, at any time. It’s older people—and me in particular—I pray for.

bebu

12

Should "the other woman" be considered an acomplice before the fact?

by Thunder Rider in

jw
friends

here is a thougth.

if this peterson yutz is found guilty of murdering his wife and child, should the gal he was cheating with take some of the blame?

if it comes up that lacey was killed because she found out about the affair, doesn't that implicate the other woman?

bebu

If not for her actions Lacey and the child might still be alive.

How do we know this? This is speculation.

Perhaps, if Scott is the killer--the trial isn't even started yet, ya know--he would have killed his wife and child anyway. Sometimes someone will kill a wife/husband in order to get free for a hoped-for relationship, and I wouldn't blame a potential lover here either. I applaud this gal for cutting off the relationship and for coming forward.

bebu

26

Is Jesus Dead?

by Tower Man in

since it's about that time of year, i have a new article on my site about the resurrection.

http://www.towertotruth.net/is_jesus_dead.htm

tower man

bebu

My various observations about unchristian "Christian" historical events--events that continue in various places and aspects up to this day, BTW, and didn't just end around 600 or 1200 AD...

After Constantine "converted"(?), he forced the conversion of his empire at knifepoint. Where is that Biblical? The fact that Christians sin big is no news; if such acts were approved or commanded by Christ, then that is where we are at a loss. You'd really have us in a corner.

Syncretism vs. Christianity. Folks who "convert" (esp. at knifepoint) basically throw their new "god" Jesus onto their existing paganistic framework. A new religion is born out of the old and the new, but gets called Christianity. For example, years ago I saw a documentary about a mountain village in Bolivia, where the local gods got replaced by the Virgin and various patron saints, one per village in the area. The locals will get falling down drunk for days during a festival to celebrate their patron saint. They considered themselves devout Catholics, even as they engaged in other blatantly immoral behaviors during these festivals. The truth here is that they have just renamed their gods with Christian ones, and more or less continue in their old paths, with a few new rituals thrown in. But Christians and Syncretists often live side-by-side. Perhaps there really were Christians in there; I don't know each person there--only God does.

(The New Testament is packed with warnings by Jesus about false teachers and false Christians. He said you'd know who's who by their fruit. Jesus said the field that was sown with wheat also got sown with tares (weeds) by the enemy. They are in the same field, and they both are supposed to be wheat... but tares are certainly not edible. (Matt 13:24-30) )

God knows whether the individuals involved thru history are His or not. The mystery is why He allows such blasphemy. Then I reflect: I. myself. am a very bad Christian! I am still quite selfish, and daily struggle to let go of trying to do things my way. It is my hope not to be one who dishonors God's name, but I think it's already too late! And now, how in the world can I undo my past?? History is convicting, not so much for those other people mentioned, but for ME. There are several people that should have turned from Christ on my account. Miraculously, one is now a Christian, despite me.

God's grace to me is great: I am a Christian, though (honestly) a very poor one.

And God's grace is big enough to bridge the gap between my poor example and His own, and somehow bring other people to understand and know Him, despite the worst of Christians. Truly, I don't understand God here at all, but I do really love Him for the constant flow of mercy to me, and to others despite me.

Jesus is alive, even though I'm a bad Christian. Jesus' resurrection didn't logically depend on me. And Jesus is alive, though others have been poor/false Christians. His resurrection didn't logically depend on them.

So, in my opinion, a historical argument based on bad Christian behavior doesn't give the harsh blow that some think it does. It is a red herring--a distraction from the real argument.

If anyone really wants to disprove Christianity, s/he'll have to go for the jugular, and not the red herrings.: If Jesus is DEAD, then no matter what kind of good points there might be anywhere in Christendom, it's completely false. If Jesus is ALIVE (sorry, no inbetweenies like sleepytime-death/Michael-the-archangel-body exchanges/whatever), then all the atrocities committed by Christians--both real and imagined, by me or evil popes--won't prevent Jesus from coming again. (Remember, there was also a wicked slave mentioned right after that F&D slave...)

That is the trunk of the tree. Whoever wants to get to the end of this matter: chop it down at its naked trunk, instead of pruning some upper branches. Put your 'best ax' up against this most critical part of the tree. (I hear whetting stones!)

bebu

25

The Knock at the Door After the Prayer

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

this experience is commoly related by jehovah's witnesses:.

a man or woman is desperately searching for "the truth" or someone is about to give up on life but before they do they utter a prayer to god and lo and behold a knock is heard on the door and behind the door are jehovah's witnesses.. these experiences are used by jw's to confirm angelic direction on their work and seems to reinforce in them that they have the "truth".. how does one argue against such personal experience?.

i am no longer a jw and no longer support their organizational teachings by the way, but i'd like to throw out the above question to you all for comment and consideration.. .

bebu

That last comment reminds me of an episode from Cheers, when Rebecca FINALLY agrees to date Sam. After she leaves, Sam pulls out a piece of paper from his pocket in front of Coach, and says, "I KNEW she'd do this today! I KNEW IT! Look, I wrote it out on a piece of paper that she'd agree to date me on this day!!" Coach reads, "'Today, Rebecca will go out on a date with me. Signed Sam. Dated x/x/x.(that day's date)' That's incredible, Sam! How'd you know that today she would agree to go out on a date?!?"

And Sam replied, "Oh, I write myself the same note every day..."

bebu

29

Ive been asked to do a talk for a born-again church...

by searchfothetruth in

jw
friends

.

i could do with some advice.. my uncle is a born-again and attends a church in liverpool and has asked me to give an hours talk on 'how to answer jehovah's witnesses' basically to help his churches members talk to witnesses on the when they come to their doors.. i have most of the info off freeminds and jw files, and was wondering what you all thought would be the best subjects to approach, the easiest to explain and the most effective for making jw's think after being questioned on it.. appreciate your comments..

bebu

These are all great suggestions! I especially like JeffT's. Perhaps other points can be made thru audience participation as well. False prophecy,. bad chronolgy, shunning and the F&D slave issues seem to be the most important, although I've found the UN scandal makes a pretty sharp impression on those I've talked with informally--everyone loves a scandal, it seems.

Toward the end of your presentation, I also think that it would be well to explain to listeners that people that come out of any cult group are often the walking wounded, and if they ever meet ex-JWs in everyday life, to take the time to show extra kindness and compassion. (Is there special advice you would can tell them from your own experience in what they could say/do to help an ex-JW? Here's your moment.)

Just some thoughts...

bebu

13

Scientology: Who's out?

by Swan in

jw
friends

i don't usually follow celebrity gossip, but i saw this headline on msn and followed the link.. http://entertainment.msn.com/news/article.aspx?news=119692.

scientology shuffle.

nicole kidman and lisa marie differ on the church.

bebu

Those are ridiculous lyrics. I can't imagine being a label company and letting the song on. It just must have amazing vocals or an amazing melody, then, right? I don't have any issues for or against Ritalin, though I do suspect that it's over-prescribed.

I think a message like that would have to have be more poetic, and thought-provoking, if you know what I mean. Right now it sounds like propaganda. Blecch!

I am glad that Nicole is out of the Scientology. Tom and John and Kelly are otherwise intelligent people; I hope that there is something that gets their attention as to the nuttiness of it all!

2 cents from

bebu

40

I attended my first meeting at a KH!!

by playdrums in

for the memorial service i went with my girlfriend.

she's the jw.

i also brought my best friend.

bebu

I'm sure you have all of our best wishes and all of our prayers, Playdrums.

If you find a site that has the JW songbook lyrics, send me the link! They sound fascinating to me. (I'm sure most here can't stand the thought of reading over them again.)

Carmen sounds like a special gal. Sounds like she really wants to follow God; I'm sure she is attracted to you because of your honesty and sincerity in your desire to do this, too. Just keep being kind and patient toward her as you slowly work with her. You sound like a terrific boyfriend.

One Christian friend who had the biggest influence on me, would look at me so kindly and honestly, and say, "Well, bebu, the Bible says..." And he wasn't twisting scripture. Sometimes I argued with him about what he occasionally extrapolated things to be--and occasionally, I got him to agree with me! I appreciated that he would always be honest, and not just dogmatic. He got me thinking. I felt safe considering his comments and questions. I thought, "If I actually end up changing my beliefs a bit and end up like him, could it be so bad?? Honestly, it'd be an improvement!" He was the most Christ-like person I'd ever met. Your girlfriend may also subconsciously be having the same thoughts.

Again, keep your heart right, love God with all your strength first, and the strength of that living testimony alone can undo the weak arguments she currently adheres to. Demonstrate great patience. It'll work, if she's truly receptive to the work of God.

I hope you will keep us updated!!!

bebu

1

Short Guide to Compare Religions (Funny!)

by Billygoat in

a friend of mine sent this hyperlink to me.

it was too funny not to share here!

simon, my apologies for the vulgarness, but do you blame me??

bebu

That is really funny, Andi!

I'm going to copy that for my files.

bebu

40

I attended my first meeting at a KH!!

by playdrums in

for the memorial service i went with my girlfriend.

she's the jw.

i also brought my best friend.

bebu

Playdrums,

When I think of the songs that are sung in Christian churches, I think that the ones that must be hardest for JWs to be upset about/argue against are ones that come more directly from Bible verses. How can anyone argue with songs that are from Psalms, for example? When a church uses the Bible for a songbook, how can they be dismissed so easily?

On the other hand, if there is propaganda in JW music, and not scripture, (except in small, skewed doses?), would this not be noticed? I would hope so.

It is hard for me to imagine that JWs (or Mormons!) actually sing songs with lots of scripture in them. Long passages of scripture, not 'cut and paste' scripture. I've heard Mormons have songs like, "I Hope They Call Me To a Mission" and "We Thank Thee, O God, For a Prophet". These are propaganda, obviously.

Could people post the names of JW songs that are obviously propaganda? I'm curious! And is anyone aware of any song(s) that are close to hymns in Christian churches? I just can't imagine overlap!

bebu

3

New Easter Hymn... "Pharoah, let my people go!!!"

by anti-absolutist in

jw
friends

i went down to a church around the corner for an easter egg hunt, this morning, with the kids.

i had never been to any other church before, but it was great fun for the kids.

before they had the hunt, there was a puppet show and some songs were sung.. i was impressed with the upbeat, positive atmosphere of everybody there.

bebu

I've been thinking about this question. Here's what I've come up with:

Soldiers are men who are trained to fight and kill, and also to be prepared to die for the cause the leader sets them to. They were coming up to fight a kind of war ("come back as slaves to Egypt or die") of sorts against a crowd of people who were not soldiers, nor very likely able to defend themselves. Basically, God fought the Egyptians on behalf of the Israelites. Another army could have stepped in to fight the battle, and we would most likely not mourn about Egyptian losses. If you die by sword or by drowning as a soldier, it's still the same fate of death--a hazard of the job.

Sometimes God's eternal messages are painted on an "epic" canvas: "When God rescues you, even when the enemy tries to recapture you, you are safe; and God gives grace even when you have fear."

...But, then there are always other questions that can be asked about other battles that were fought under different circumstances. Some of them are more difficult to "comb out" than others.

One thing I've discovered is that when I get a lot more background info, I can understand the reason why a battle was fought.

Another thing is that sometimes we think that the Bible promotes all the actions of all "good" characters. But that is not necessarily the case--the Bible sometimes reports some things without comment, at times. Some of these things are NOT good, such as certain events in the times of Judges, or before the exile; or of certain characters, like Judah and Tamar.

I am a parent, and I think most parents know that there are times when we do/allow something that looks quite unfair from the point of view of the child. We often get accused of being unjust, even as we try to train our child to respect justice. Unfortuanately, there ARE times when I am unjust, because I still do sin. But God is perfectly just, and there is sometimes a question if He is being fair, since we don't see all the info/see into hearts like He does.

At this point, I always remember the incredible death of Christ, and I think, God knows justice; God knows mercy. God knows these things better than I do, and if His character is like this, then I can trust Him even when I don't understand everything. (And, it is still okay for me to try to learn answers to questions like these, too.)

bebu