if you guys remember some of the previous conversations i have posted between us, she is heavily indoctrinated with every facet of watchtower world.
lately, we've been talking about her serious relationship with a non-witness.
he tried studying, but just couldn't agree to go along with the wackiness.
Great conversation! I"ll bet you feel really pumped by that--and you should. You nailed the center of the whole cult process: surgically removing God and replacing Him with itself.
I hope she'll be leaving soon... her boyfriend will be thanking you as well, I hope.
bebu
just thought i'd share something a friend recently posted at his site.. here it is: http://ryansutter.net/wp/2007/07/25/539/#comment-699.. it's about cognitive dissonance and the role it plays in the lives' of witnesses and ex-witnesses..
Cognitive dissonance is the most fascinating mechanisms in psychology to me. Ryan wrote about it very well in regards to JWs. Thanks for sharing the link!
bebu
what you reward you tend to get more of.. what you punish tends to atrophy.. the balance between a good act and a bad one consists of the consequences.. society has found many ways to treat bad behavior.
the worst being imprisonment and execution (if not torture) for high crimes.. but, there is a core philosophy among altruists and christians of a certain stripe who advocate forgiveness.. so, we ask the question : does forgiveness make any sense?.
when we do harm we cause an effect.. the effect injures others or their property.. to restore what is harmed a system of justice has developed to deal with administering the pressure toward restoration (when possible).. fines, community service, reparation for damages all constitute that restoration process.. insurance companies act as brokers in the case of "accidental" causes and effects and their remedy.. but, in the realm of religion the principle of forgiveness rears its ugly head!.
You are right! No, forgiveness does not make any rational 'sense'. Love is pretty irrational when you finally get to the bottom of it. And forgiveness is one side of the gold coin of love.
Well, and that was the ground rules in the OT. And interesting that mankind generally feels that debt everywhere in the world, as you said.You break it; you buy it.
All through mankind's history primitive and irrational people have offered innocent lives and other offerings to appease the wrath of deities who may have been offended by man's unwitting actions.
If they were unwitting, they were not truly sins. Unwitting actions need mostly to be excused, not forgiven.
Usually, in the case of the courts, the question of "intentionality" enters the consideration.
Likewise, courts take into consideration the question of "remorse". Why take anything into consideration if the whole black and white issue is only Pottery Barn's
You break it; you buy it. --?
An applied question for the board would be: Can I forgive the WTS' GB (or elders XYZ) for their present, deliberate evil policies which have affected me?
Forgiveness, as I see it, would take the form of praying for their hearts to be so pierced with sorrow and remorse, so as to become humble. They should still have to be held accountable for their actions, perhaps, but they could bear those consequences, knowing that justice is served without having hatred of them as persons.
bebu
That's my quick 2 cents; I've got to dash.
bebu
most of old posters have hashed and re-hashed our backgrounds, history, and method of discovering the 'truth about the truth'.. your turn newbies!.
those who are lurking without the benefit of registration - it only takes a minute, and you too can give us your stories!.
those registered lurkers - what holds you back?
Welcome, , macncheese, DV, and snowbird!! And a HELLO back to JE1234!
I think how a JW began to discover (and to confirm to himself) that the WTS was a cult is my favorite kind of story. With all the pressure to always be loyal, always trust, and of course stay AWAY from the internet... I like to hear how such odds got overcome. --Snowbird, I can imagine the swooning!
I hope more lurkers will feel encouraged to register and post. This thread is a great place to begin.
bebu
what kind of measures do other parents take to help kids navigate the internet safely?.
i hate msn and other iming programs - there's far too much potential for mischief with that service available.. are there some easy ways to block sites or isps?
or is it better to set it up with approved sites only?.
Are there programs that will automatically turn off the computer after a certain amount of login time per day?
There is a product (not software) called TV Allowance, which is programmed (by you) to put limits on the amount of time someone is using a TV or any plugged in thing. You give your kids however many hours a week "allowance" for the item, you can block certain time periods you don't want them on, and you can give each kid a separate amount. They each make up their own 4-digit pin for access (that is, so that the machine will turn on) . They can learn to budget their computer time, there is an option to rollover unused hours into the next week, and there is a key and administrator's code so you can edit or whatnot.
We don't use it these days... but we did before and it helped. We might have to drag it out again though.
bebu
i knew of an elder who ran a janitorial business for decades here [surprize] - his primary employees were his kids, ranging in age from 3 or 4 to teenager at various times.
he would bring in the whole family, they would spread out and empty bags, vacuum, and dust.
in a flash they are out and off to the book study or whatever.. he was able to 'witness wipe' several offices after 5 o'clock and before the 7 o'clock meeting times.
Me.......although I try not to be.
Yeah, that's me too.
bebu
i am feeling so low and beaten down today i can hardly talk or move.
my eyes are swollen from crying.
normally you save this kind of emotion for when someone has died.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((anewme))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
So much pain on both sides! I can imagine the hurt of your family after losing you for so much of your life. I can understand the depth of the pain they dealt with: they missed you so much, they became hard and cynical so as to quit hurting. If they consider themselves Christians of any sort, then this natural response really was indefensible.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will obtain mercy.
(...And those who don't show mercy could be receiving what they dished out, e.g.: "Have a nice life ... *click*")
I would that your aunt could relent and forgive you. What a wonderful gift that would be to you! Forgiveness is a gift paid by accepting pain; 35 years of pain is hard for her to accept. I pray God will convict her for her ugly words to you. And I pray God gives you grace for overcoming this response, that you can somehow forgive her.
About the trust fund... Using financial advice from a large variety of sources, perhaps you could present to your brother a detailed argument showing why a particular investment (eg, a mortgage) would be considered a VERY wise financial investment, growing in value. It would be very difficult for him to deny you if you have present a water-tight case. It's possible he will soften over time.
(If your brother considers himself a Christian, remind him of the prostitute who washed Jesus' feet with her hair. She came humbly, completely unable to undo her sinful history; and she received mercy, not judgement, from Christ.)
Again, anewme, I really am sorry for the sorrow you are having right now.
(((HUGS)))
bebu
sitting around a campfire last weekend, a few of us were discussing what is "going on" on the rebuilding or the construction of what is being built at ground zero in nyc.. we all agreed that we see nothing on the news....we see nothing in magazines....we hear nothing at all about the progress (or lack of) in whatever was chosen to be built there!
it is as if this never happened.....at least to those of us far beyond walking past the site to actually see what is going on!
(being 400 miles away from nyc!).
I've been wondering about it, too. Thanks for all the info.
ANNNNNND a Happy Birthday to our own Sunny-spot Annie!
Thanks for all the sunshine you bring here!!
bebu
dear all,.
those of you who have posted here regularly for the past four years have helped me immensely in my recovery from watchtower and have shared with me in my journey.
you will also know that, after winning my battle with watchtower (save for one daughter who is still stuck fast in the org and shunning the rest of us), i have been fighting an even greater battle these past three years - cancer!.
Ian, I hope it goes as well for you as it has for our friend here who had the same stem cell transplant. She's looking GREAT.
And I hope you can sterilize a laptop, and get wi-fi working so that you can surf the net from the hospital!! Of course, we might get TMI about bedpans and whatnot...
bebu
"on the blood marrow donor registry" class
is there anyone, when you see they have posted, that you always check to see what they have to say?
i always check blondie, bebu, alanf, farkel, onacruse, aguest (and probably others).
bc what they say has some gravity, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some insight.
Well, that is the first time I've ever been listed in a title thread. Now--watch my head pop!! (J/K, I'm in no danger of being in a popularity circle here! )
Of course, you realize that my answering this thread shows you that I read YOUR threads/posts whenever I find them, nowisee. You joined this board shortly after me; we exchanged some very enjoyable pm's back then. Your character impressed me a lot!! (Still does. You don't post much, but your posts are always honest and thoughtful!!!)
bebu
