i found it important to be honest with my wife.
so i told her about my conscience decision that in a medical urgency i want blodless medicine but if a transfusion of blood or the 4 prohibited components is necessary to save my life or health i would accept it.
this would apply especially also for our child (that is not such a problem as in our country the wts recommends to comply with doctors as they have the right to decide concerning minors).. i showed her the reasons why i came to that conscience decision (biblical and logical reasons) and that jehovah and jesus do not like anyone to die because of this wrong bible application.. .
Eyeus2badub: you have a smart wife
Captain Blithering: thanks for your wishes. I wish you the best too. It for sure needs a lot of courage to tell it to someone you love but who is a prisoner of mind control. I told the same the same concerning blood to my parents who are each about 50 years in the "truth." At least they changed their mind about blood.
i found it important to be honest with my wife.
so i told her about my conscience decision that in a medical urgency i want blodless medicine but if a transfusion of blood or the 4 prohibited components is necessary to save my life or health i would accept it.
this would apply especially also for our child (that is not such a problem as in our country the wts recommends to comply with doctors as they have the right to decide concerning minors).. i showed her the reasons why i came to that conscience decision (biblical and logical reasons) and that jehovah and jesus do not like anyone to die because of this wrong bible application.. .
hanks for your answers so far.
Of course I will keep you informed how that talk goes.
In my congregation the elders are quite loving. They know that I had doubts about different other topics (thats why I stepped back as an elder 3 years ago. But I will not compromise on this.
Mark mysfcf
Are you also from switzerland? I hope it is all well between you and your wife as you stopped so abruptly with the meetings.
Datadog you have a pm
i found it important to be honest with my wife.
so i told her about my conscience decision that in a medical urgency i want blodless medicine but if a transfusion of blood or the 4 prohibited components is necessary to save my life or health i would accept it.
this would apply especially also for our child (that is not such a problem as in our country the wts recommends to comply with doctors as they have the right to decide concerning minors).. i showed her the reasons why i came to that conscience decision (biblical and logical reasons) and that jehovah and jesus do not like anyone to die because of this wrong bible application.. .
I found it important to be honest with my wife. So I told her about my conscience decision that in a medical urgency I want blodless medicine but if a transfusion of blood or the 4 prohibited components is necessary to save my life or health I would accept it. This would apply especially also for our child (that is not such a problem as in our country the WTS recommends to comply with doctors as they have the right to decide concerning minors).
I showed her the reasons why I came to that conscience decision (biblical and logical reasons) and that Jehovah and Jesus do not like anyone to die because of this wrong bible application.
I found it important to show this all to her, because we are a family and we should know how to act before we are in a life threatening medical situation (if I destroyed my blood card she would have found out about it anyways).
One month has passed after we discussed about it. She still thinks the blood doctrin is correct although she sees the logical flaws concerning the fractions (she sweeps them under the carpet). I don't want to stress those flaws more, because at least she accepts fractions and I don't want her to refuse them.
After our discussion she wanted me to tell the elders about my conscience decision.
I did that now. So I wrote them about my stand concerning blood and why I scripturally think like that and why my conscience doesn't allow me to be bloodguilty for an interpretation of the scriptures that I clearly think is wrong.
Now on Friday the elder I wrote to together with another one, will talk to me about that subject.
How do you think will they react? What will be the outcome?
The "shepherding..." book says that someone disassociates if he "willingly and unrepentantly takes blood."
Now I didn't take blood. I just would if I were in such a situation.
Do you think they would still consider me disassociated, even if I didn't take blood?
(Maybe you can't understand why I wrote this to the elders. Maybe I even wish that they disassociate me because that would be a way to leave. It is so hard to go to all the meetings and pretend).
Unstoppable
Of course I don't believe that Eve was literally made from Adams rip 6000 years ago.
If you do just a little research on cave paintings of "chauvet cave" and "cosquer cave", as well as "lake dwellings in central europe" (age about 6000 years old dated by "non radiometric means) you will find out that there must have been humans more than 6000 years ago.
I guess you don't take everything of the bible or of the genesis account literally. Or do you believe the creative days were 24 hour days or the beasts of revelation are literal?
I just wanted to show you that the bible does not describe HOW god created everything. To state that he made every animal species instantly like a constructor produces a good is leaving some questions. For example: why were nearly all species extinct except those today? Moreover if you believe in a "global" flood and not a "local" flood you believe that all millions of species today evolved from those that were in the arc or survived by other means. That would have been an evolution over just 4000 years.
Unstoppableravens
I would like to show you another possible viewpoint about "theistic evolution."
The theory of evolution does not say a word, that there is no God or no creator (only atheists and fundamentalists in the scientific world say that). Darwin did never say that there is no creator. He even ended his work "Origin of Species..." with the words:
"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Does "theistic evolution" really contradict the creation account of the bible?
The bible says the following:
Gen. 1:2
Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.
Before something was created, Gen. 1:3, 6, 9, 11,14, 20, 24, 26, 29 shows that "God went on to say."
So God gave the order for a creation to come into existence. He used his active force and his word.
Gen. 1:11
And God went on to say: Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth...
Gen. 1:12
And the earth began to put forth grass...
Gen. 1:20
And God went on to say: Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls...
Gen. 1:24
And God went on to say: Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds...
These words do not describe howGod created animals and humans. It does not say that he created every species suddenly in an instance like an engineer constructing a roboter. That reasoning is coming from a human standpoint, influenced by the industrial age, not picturing how the bible describes the creator. The bible is describing the creator as someone who gives freedom and uses his spirit to go fro over the land (in a human example maybe like a wonderful artist).
These words simply say, that God created everything by his order and his active force (also a person without scientific knowledge at that time could have understood this easily).
It also says, that he used the sea and the earth to swarm and put forth living souls. It could very well be, that he created the universe and the natural laws in a way that the sea and the earth can swarm or produce living things successively (by God's supervision).
These words leave it open and allow for the concept of evolution.
Even the saying "according to its kind" is not a contradiction to a "theistic evolution." As the account was written, "all kinds" existed. If they came in millions of years successively by evolution or appeared in an instance is not relevant in this case. They exist. The bible writer describes the result, that God created all these species, not the HOW.
Even Matthew 19:4-6 just confirms that humans were created male and female. Jesus does not say how they were created. That would have been too much for readers to understand.
Moreover it is without a doubt clear that God used also symbolic speech in the creation account (for example 6 creative days). If he gave a scientific explanation, the readers wouldn't have understood.
In his love God left it to us humans to stand in awe and study his creation in a scientific way and also like that come closer to him.
Unstoppable...
You can believe in a creator AND believe in evolution... that is called theistic evolution.
this is a very strange thing for me to do.
i have been an active witness for over 25 years.
i currently serve as an elder and i conduct the watchtower study.
Dear dog
I feel very much for you as I was in a similar situation. I was an elder but knew deep down that shunning is a wrong thing to do especially family members. After a shepherding call with a brother whose mother disassociated I couldn't bear it any longer. I also had some other doubts.
I am a very honest person and it really makes me sick to pretend things. So I wrote the elders that I would like to step back because of my doubts. I wrote in detail about shunning, that I can't approve of Jehovah ordering killings of children in the old testament and also in armaggeddon, that I don't believe the flood was global and therefore my conscience doesn't allow me to be an elder. They understood my decision and also my wife understood but was sad about it.
Then followed to years of studying many topics of my belief. I really tested my religion and I found out things that made it so hard to me to remain even a publisher. The last thing was the blood doctrin. I read most articles here in the medical folder. Especially the letter a brother called Vinny wrote and also the Jensen letters opened my eyes.
As my wife found out about my true feelings she became very cold towards me, she kind of thinks I betrayed her spiritually even though I am kind and tolerant to her.I hope that we can manage to stay together and that our relationship gets better. I can tell you I buried my doubts but they came back. I feel much better now because I followed myconscience. I am not an unbeliever. I still believe in a creator and kind of built my own faith based on pacifism, human rights and love towards humans and creation and science.I wish you all the best and think of you. You can always send me a private message. Daniel
i have had requests to add an article about beards and jehovah's witnesses.
it is interesting that there is virtually no statement that says a witness cannot have a beard, yet universally they do not have beards.
i have scoured quotes from all the threads on jwn, all references to beard on the cd watchtower library, and copies of elders letters that i have.
In Switzerland there are several brothers and even elders with full beards. I feel that in Switzerland those manmade rules are not overemphacised whereas in Germany english speaking countries the brothers are so strict in minor things.
In many congregations there are sisters wearing trousers for meeting and especially field service. That makes sense especially in winter whereas my friends told me that in Canada sisters have to wear a skirt when temperatures are even below 30.
These are manmade rules similar to the rules of the pharisees.
hubby is now giving 5 days a week to the cult.
they see more of him while he is awake than i do.
when he is home he is either sleeping or in his office on his computer.
Hi kariott
I feel for you. Before you give up just tell him your feelings and that it can't go on like this.
If he is loving, caring and if you are important for him, then he should afterwards show by actions that he takes more time for you.
Daniel
i think to the benefit of all, i will write my comments of steven hassan's latest book, freedom of mind: helping loved ones leave controlling people, cults, and beliefs.. you can purchase the book in amazon.com, there is a kindle version which is very handy since you can read it wherever you have internet connection, or if you have an iphone, an ipad, android phone, etc.. you can get it here: .
http://www.amazon.com/freedom-mind-helping-controlling-beliefs-ebook/dp/b008haiwiw/ref=sr_1_1_bnp_1_kin?ie=utf8&qid=1384750710&sr=8-1&keywords=freedom+of+mind.
the first chapter talks about determining whether a particular group is a cult.. "destructive cults are distinguished by their use of deception and extreme influence.".
Thanks for your summary
