Posts by Daniel1555

25

How do individual JW's justify Jehovah's Old Testament orders to kill little children even babies (amalekites, canaanites)?

by Daniel1555 in

in 1. samuel 15:2-3 we read jehovah's order to kill "all" amalekites.

it says "you are to put them to death, man as well as woman, child as well as infant...".

in deuteronomy 2:32-34 the israelites say about sihon.

Daniel1555

Thanks Legacy for your comments.

I agree with you that we should spend "quality" time with our children and not neglect them.

25

How do individual JW's justify Jehovah's Old Testament orders to kill little children even babies (amalekites, canaanites)?

by Daniel1555 in

in 1. samuel 15:2-3 we read jehovah's order to kill "all" amalekites.

it says "you are to put them to death, man as well as woman, child as well as infant...".

in deuteronomy 2:32-34 the israelites say about sihon.

Daniel1555

Of course I am not higher as god. And of course I would never judge god or question his reasons and his love.

But I cannot "believe" in such a picture of my creator. I believe in god, but I believe he is much different than the bible describes him / her / it. I also believe he created the natural laws in a way that life can evolve (theistic evolution).

Therefore I don't believe these accounts come from the true creator. I prefer to believe that these accounts about genocide and killings are not infallible and picture not the true creator but just the tribal god of Israel.

I think that ancient Israel falsely thought, god orders these things. And it was written down.

Or some leaders of the Israelites have invented god's orders to have a reason to take the land.

25

How do individual JW's justify Jehovah's Old Testament orders to kill little children even babies (amalekites, canaanites)?

by Daniel1555 in

in 1. samuel 15:2-3 we read jehovah's order to kill "all" amalekites.

it says "you are to put them to death, man as well as woman, child as well as infant...".

in deuteronomy 2:32-34 the israelites say about sihon.

Daniel1555

In 1. Samuel 15:2-3 we read Jehovah's order to kill "all" Amalekites. It says "you are to put them to death, man as well as woman, child as well as infant..."

In Deuteronomy 2:32-34 the Israelites say about Sihon. "We captured all his cities at that time and devoted every city to destruction, including men, women, and children. We left no survivor."

In Deuteronomy 3:3-6 we read what the Israelites did to 60 cities of Bashan: "However we devoted them to destruction, just as we had done to King Sihon of Heshbon, in devoting every city to destruction, including men, women, and children."

So the bible is clear, that Jehovah God himself ordered the genocides of the Amalekites (because of revenge, as they hindered the Israelites 400 years earlier) and the Canaanites.

JW and other christian literature justify these accounts of genocide as follows:

1. Those nations deserved it to be wiped out as they did themselves evil things like child sacrifice.

2. God has given life. So he can decide for himself to whom he will take life away without us questioning him.

3. God is just and does always what is right. Who are we to judge his actions. He had his reasons, even if we don't know them.

How does a JW who believes Jehovah is love in person and that these accounts are "infallible" inspired of god, justify these commands to kill children, even infants?

I let a few friends give me their opinion:

1. My wife who separated from me because she believes I am an apostate

My wife said that Jehovah is above everything else. If Jehovah orders something, no human is in a position to question it but has to follow it. So I asked her if she would kill someone if he orders it. To my horror she said "YES, but he isn't ordering it."

(When I hear this I keep thinking of "suicide bombers". They are killing themselves and many others just because they "believe" that God is requesting this from them).

2. A friend

He thinks that Jehovah sees the whole picture. He will ressurect the killed innocent ones (for example children). He thinks it would have been worse, if those children survived and had to live traumatized without their parents with the Israelites who were the murderers.

3. Another friend

He thinks that Jehovah's angel was with the Israelites when they did these things. This angel (he thinks probably Jesus) would have taken care, that these children didn't suffer pain when they were killed (my jaw just dropped when I heard that. Those children and babies were slaughtered by swords. How could they not suffer pain as they were cut in pieces?). He believes they will get a resurrection and go straight to paradise, which would anyway have been better than to live a canaanite life.

Do you know of other JW justifications of all these cruel OT accounts?

29

International Convention

by msconcerned in

jw
friends

an email forwarded to a friend.

what do you make of it?.

below is a report about preparing for the seattle, washington international convention.

Daniel1555

Jehovah blesses the convention preparations like he blessed the printing of the 'silver sword' (weather).

I am so happy and relieved to NOT attend the first time a convention in my life (35 years old).

23

If you are thinking about "Stepping Down" you better do it QUICK!

by Comatose in

the new arrangement for co's to handle deletions (and appointments) means you no longer will be able to give your friends on the body an excuse and step down.

you will have to answer to the co and most likely have a long uncomfortable chat about everything with him in order to step down.

so if you have been thinking about stepping down, you need to do it quick before the new arrangement..

Daniel1555

As I stepped down I wrote a letter with my doubts to the COBE and that I want to resign. They tried to change my mind, as I did a lot of work and if I resigned they would have to do it.

As the CO came a few weeks later, he talked about 1 hour with me about my doubts and resignation and he had to accept it.

After that talk I went outside, breathed deeply and felt so happy as a huge wheight was off my chest.

I think that new arrangement is not such a big change. Before it was the CO who wrote to tge branch that brother xx should be appointed as elder. Now he probably can do that just without waiting for the branch or governing body nodding their heads.

31

"The Devil is at Work!"

by HeyThere in

i consider myself a christian.

seriously did not even think that jw was that much different...but now i know better and it has my mind spinning.

i have stopped answering questions, say my own prayers to god at the meetings, and plastr on a fake smile.

Daniel1555

You were very courageous.

Your husband now knows about your true feelings. That's good especially as you will have surgery.

I would advice you to be slow to address more things to him. Just let it sink down to him. Do not overwhelm him.

I wish you and your husband all the best.

30

It's official too: I will be DF'd... probably next Wednesday

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

i will write my story soon... .

Daniel1555

I read most of your posts during the past months. I was feeling for you. You are very kind, courageous and an absolutely amazing son, who truly loves dad and mum.

There were just too many obstacles in your fading journey.

Even with this outcome life will be great for you. I wish you from my heart all the best and think positive.

13

I am not going for JC!

by exWTslave in

this morning two elders visited me and said this years memorial day is on april 14, and we are informing you well in advance so that you can arrange your affairs and attend.

[i had given them the impression that i am very busy due to my secular assignments, hence most of the time out of station.].

then i thought two elders visiting me cannot have an ordinary purpose, and i should give them a piece of my mind.

Daniel1555

Hi exwtslave

Welcome Nice to have you here.

You showed courage to talk openly about your thoughts.

I think they won't make a jc. First they will come back with some answers or Watchtower articles to teach you about the ransom doctrine. They will try to change your thoughts and opinions, as it is their duty to help those having doubts. When they sense that you don't change your views, they might tell you not to openly tell them to other brothers. If you did that, then a jc will be formed.

Anyway I wish you all the best.

Daniel

32

What has happened to AJWRB?

by Haelcer in

does anyone know what going on with ajwrb's website?.

"this domain maybe for sale!

buy it now!

Daniel1555

Lee: 1 Question

First the new ajwrb site on your link looks great. Especially that its good for mobile devices.

I tried to open 'Personal Accounts', 'person 1' or 2 etc, under 'articles'. These personal experiences do not load. Do you know how to read them?

Thanks for all your work.

32

What has happened to AJWRB?

by Haelcer in

does anyone know what going on with ajwrb's website?.

"this domain maybe for sale!

buy it now!

Daniel1555

Minimus said:

Sorry but thus site should have revolutionized the blood issue to the point that JWs would not have to deal with the blood issue at all. What did the site really accomplish?? Nothing, ever, IMO.

This site and the corresponding one in German accomplished a lot. It opened my eyes about the blood issue and gave me reasons and arguments that neither the branch office nor hospital liaison members could answer. Reasons that make other witnesses I know think too about it.

It would be great if this site came back.