Posts by hannes

62

The Bible and it's promise of Heaven and various other things

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

now in no way am i trying to discredit anyones beliefs or make fun, but once you get to heaven what is the plan once you get there.. of course, we always overlay extremely physical things upon the experience of heaven... milk and honey... ruiling over the earth etc... truthful the whole idea sounds so boring / mundane /monotonous.

spending all of eternity serving god by carry messages here and there?.

watching humans... i guess spending time with family that are also there and reminiscing.

hannes

Hi cofty!

Very early in my childhood I had come to believe we stem from more primitive forms of life and all had evolved by mere chance and necessity (J. Monod). I ridiculed ideas like T. de Jardin's of a universe evolving through God's word to a state he termed cosmic Christ. I considered it utterly foolish and narrow minded catholicism. I disliked and despised what I saw and heared this man named Christ supposedly was about.

I was not a happy child or youth but certainly felt I was happier and much more free than if I tried to be religious after human fashion. I still thi k so. When I came (as a young man) to read Paul and John and Moses and Koheleth it was surprise and revelation to me. These men were not the fools I had thought they had been. I have come to trust there is a just and mighty God. I still feel fear but would feel even more if I tried to deny the hope and perspective that my life has gotten. I am still less than most other people I know. I can not see, though, how returning to what I believed formerly (i.e. nothing really) would help in my case. However, I believe even a stubborn atheist (in the face of foolish religion) is closer to God in his being true to his inner heart and towards his fellow humans than many of the most religious who are liars and deceived by the thought of their own greatness.

Regarding the antiquity of humankind my trust in the concepts of much early history and dating is little. I am no witness. Historians and Biologists aren't either.

62

The Bible and it's promise of Heaven and various other things

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

now in no way am i trying to discredit anyones beliefs or make fun, but once you get to heaven what is the plan once you get there.. of course, we always overlay extremely physical things upon the experience of heaven... milk and honey... ruiling over the earth etc... truthful the whole idea sounds so boring / mundane /monotonous.

spending all of eternity serving god by carry messages here and there?.

watching humans... i guess spending time with family that are also there and reminiscing.

hannes

@ tammy You are bringing up important and valuable thoughts. All will see the fulfillment of God's promises. How else should every one be judged? In their absence? Certainly not. Judgement means to see, receive and give justice. If all Israel, who were unfaithful, will see the greatness of God, how much more those that haven't even heard anything before. What do you think of this: The Apostle heared: Israel. Tribes and numbers counted. What he then sees, though: Great people, unnumerable, from all tribes and nations and languages. What he first heared (in signs) is what he then saw (depicting the reality): a kingdom of priests and princes for God. To establish a restored and renewed mankind. God bless your heart and mind and all your doing! Hannes

39

Josephus in "the Jewish War" remarks on the nature of eternal life

by kepler in

there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".

one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.

"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".

hannes

@ kepler The discrepancy between the views on life in earlier times to those of the time of Christ and his Apostles is in my perspective one of translation/interpretation, not of original understanding and intention. A much telling link between Moses and Prophets on the one side and Christ and Apostles on the other is the Book (and person) of Daniel. The language of the Kingdom is there and the visions of the succeeding empires finding their end in the remaining kingdom of God. There is also the resting (in death) and the rising up to life in the future. The people that are viewed as holy and therefore partakers in the establishing of justice with the coming of a son of man from God. The camels of Genesis appear (as in your archeological reports) in the vicinity of Arabia: Ishmaelite/Midianite caravan, region of Aram (with relatives of Abraham), and perhaps warfare.

39

Josephus in "the Jewish War" remarks on the nature of eternal life

by kepler in

there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".

one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.

"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".

hannes

@ kepler

Regarding camels, what shall we make of the several reports in those documents that ended up in that collection we know as the Book of Genesis, to which Moses at best was redactor adding a few minor explanatory remarks? There are three accounts that come to my mind where camels were mentioned as an integral part of the lives of those 3rd and 2nd millenium B.C. people of the near east. Between the time of Abraham and Moses' days there is as far as I can see no need to doubt the existence of larger herds of camels. (But maybe this has not been questioned regarding the origin and time of the Book of Job).

39

Josephus in "the Jewish War" remarks on the nature of eternal life

by kepler in

there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".

one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.

"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".

hannes

@ kepler

It is good and interesting how you handle this discussion. I may not be able to contribute much, but I certainly would like to.

To me:

All scripture is about bringing back what was lost. Even by calling the human image and likeness of God death is already being called into question, if you think about it. What prevalence would be there over the reptile's sting, if not in a reversal of death to life? What use of sacrifices, however useless they were, if there were no hope at all in a remedy against the dieing?

The absence of overmuch talk of resurrection in the most part of these old writings is a good answer to the notion of these texts being opium for the (lower) people. The scriptures ask a lot from man. There is no cheap comfort in them. It is actually only the Law itself that remains somewhat silent on the matter. It'd be not fitting for any law to undermine its standards by cheap excuses and hopes.

Unfortunately religion did not ease the pain, but multiplied in order to administer its intoxicants, only seemingly benevolent.

39

Josephus in "the Jewish War" remarks on the nature of eternal life

by kepler in

there is a corresponding topic on science and the immortal soul that reminded me of something that i had encountered in the 7th chapter of josephus's history of the roman campaigns in judea, "the jewish war".

one version of this is available in penguin classics, for example.

"among the jews are three schools of thought, whose adherents are called pharisees, sadducees and essenes respectively...".

hannes

@ kepler

You mentioned Job. I must disagree. In the 14th chapter he speaks of God remembering him once he has died. It is perhaps the most beautiful of all scripture regarding the hope of living again.

170

Proof of Noah's Flood - Presently watching a Documentary about Europe & the Ice Age

by *lost* in

first time i ever heard anyone say there was 'proof' of noah's flood.. very interesting,.

showed a trawler, where the team dredges regularly in the north sea - for animal bones, massive land animal bones, mammoths.. he said, originally, the bones were sent for analysis, and the dr stated, they were proof of noah's flood.. the north sea area was a land mass of dry grazing lands.

and it was very similar to africa.. many bones were found in london, of lions, hippos, etc ... when they were digging out the underground.. .

hannes

28

Noah's Ark and the flood

by confusedandalone in

so this morning i was thinking about a few things that hit me like a ton of bricks:.

1. god destroyed the entire earth because man was evil - yet right after he destroyed them for being evil he said that he will never destroy all of manking again because the are evil.... 2. god asked noah to bring two of every kind on the ark.

then he gets off the ark and sacrifices some of these animals.

hannes

@ confusedandalone

To have to die and eventually suffer death is the saddest thing on earth. And I feared it all my life. I sometimes cry when I hear of loss and dying. None of those living in those days would have lived to this day. They all would have died. There are much more horrible deaths than drowning. Horrible is the expectation of the pain and the loss of everything. The dying happens so fast there is not much pain and thinking.

170

Proof of Noah's Flood - Presently watching a Documentary about Europe & the Ice Age

by *lost* in

first time i ever heard anyone say there was 'proof' of noah's flood.. very interesting,.

showed a trawler, where the team dredges regularly in the north sea - for animal bones, massive land animal bones, mammoths.. he said, originally, the bones were sent for analysis, and the dr stated, they were proof of noah's flood.. the north sea area was a land mass of dry grazing lands.

and it was very similar to africa.. many bones were found in london, of lions, hippos, etc ... when they were digging out the underground.. .

hannes

@ Fade to Black - There is some reason to believe for the early history of e.g. the Egyptians and Sumerians to go back to the very roots of civilisation and to claim the oldest share in their kingdom.

170

Proof of Noah's Flood - Presently watching a Documentary about Europe & the Ice Age

by *lost* in

first time i ever heard anyone say there was 'proof' of noah's flood.. very interesting,.

showed a trawler, where the team dredges regularly in the north sea - for animal bones, massive land animal bones, mammoths.. he said, originally, the bones were sent for analysis, and the dr stated, they were proof of noah's flood.. the north sea area was a land mass of dry grazing lands.

and it was very similar to africa.. many bones were found in london, of lions, hippos, etc ... when they were digging out the underground.. .

hannes

Even the Mayan calendar seems to be more accurate than the Massoretic numbers. (They may have reduced in order to let Abraham stand out, which was unnecessary to do.) The Mayans give a date of 3114 B.C. for the first day after their flood.

Computations in accord with the Greek Septuagint, Jos. Flavius, and Samaritan Pentateuch diverge. There is some text criticism necessary (e.g. regarding the added appearance of a Kainan as in Luke's genealogy, not in the older manuscripts and citations, though).

Besides, most likely there were rounded numbers used (to the ten), which do not allow to compete with the Mayans in exactness (whether their number is correct or not, I can not say).