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  76

  Losing Faith in Faith..

  by Dis-Member in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i came across this lecture at 3am not being able to sleep by dan baker.

  it details his transition from christian fundamentalist to atheist and the various shades in-between.

  he realises that every denomination of christian can open the bible and prove to you that they have the right interpretation and everyone else is wrong.

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  Dis-Member

  John 8:24-29
  
  24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith He to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

  This shows that doubts are normal and Jesus did not consider it a mortal sin. Wanting proof is normal.
  
  The other apostles would have aleady believed and had faith because they lived with Jesus on a daily basis and saw all his miracles. Thomas too despite the same experience still doubted and was given proof by Jesus himself.
  
  Are we not allowed the same having never seen or experienced a single thing?
  
  "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed" is no more a law or requirment than is "Blessed are the poor in spirit". Again we are being asked to have faith in the faith of Thomas who lived 2,000 years ago. (if that is even true)
  
  More second hand stories.
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  76

  Losing Faith in Faith..

  by Dis-Member in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i came across this lecture at 3am not being able to sleep by dan baker.

  it details his transition from christian fundamentalist to atheist and the various shades in-between.

  he realises that every denomination of christian can open the bible and prove to you that they have the right interpretation and everyone else is wrong.

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  2. 
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• 

  Dis-Member

  Yes you are right Apognophos in a sense. I was mainly referring to the Bibles 'prophetic path' involving human beings and the 'seed' and it's fulfilment. I guess that part might be over. Why this 2,000 apparent year gap where we are told he is coming virtually any and every day?
  
  And yes it's very possible that people could be having genuine experiences and interactions with the Biblical 'Divine Being' and not writing great books about it but why then keep it secret?
  
  In 2,000 years something more would have leaked no? Yes there are some stories of such things taking place but again how can one ever confirm or really proveany of it?. It's still more of the 'he said she said' scenario. Second hand tales.
  
  Still whatever the case it's nothing for me to base my own faith on. The God of the Bible and Jesus did not say a rare few scattered through the centuries would know him.. he said anyone and everyone can know him and experience him in all fullness. This I guess is more my point. This invitation was extented to every living person. All mankind.
  
  Long distance relationships are very hard to sustain even more so with silent partners.
• 
  76

  Losing Faith in Faith..

  by Dis-Member in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i came across this lecture at 3am not being able to sleep by dan baker.

  it details his transition from christian fundamentalist to atheist and the various shades in-between.

  he realises that every denomination of christian can open the bible and prove to you that they have the right interpretation and everyone else is wrong.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Dis-Member

  It's not my intention to be unduly critical of the Bible and those that believe in it unequivocally.. (how can I criticize what I can not prove or even comprehend?). I'm just sad and confused that I have so very little if anything at all to build my faith upon. My study and experience of the Orgites has left my faith all but completely demolished and in tatters. I am left with nothing but total uncertainty.
  
  I'm tired and weary of books and writings of the words of men claiming to be truth on any matter at all when there are as many different truths as there are people on earth.
  
  Really not sure where to go from here. I have reached a dead end.
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  30

  Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i stopped attending meetings over one year ago, and i have thoroughly made it clear to all friends & family that i am opposed to the teachings of jehovah's witnesses, and i cannot support a religion that teaches lies.. i have systematically examined each teaching & practice of the jehovah's witnesses.

  concluding that many are not scriptural or logical.. after a year i have very unexpectedly arrived at another conclusion.

  the jehovah's witnesses do have the truth.

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  Dis-Member

  I believe that Jesus wants us to Remain in the Church that we are in at the time of Being Called .1 Cor 7:17 " Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches." (My opinion, what are your thoughts on this Scripture?)

  I hope that is not true because I can not see myself going back into any organised form of religion especially not the 'Org' after the harm that did me.

  But that's just your belief so i guess I'm excused.
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  76

  Losing Faith in Faith..

  by Dis-Member in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i came across this lecture at 3am not being able to sleep by dan baker.

  it details his transition from christian fundamentalist to atheist and the various shades in-between.

  he realises that every denomination of christian can open the bible and prove to you that they have the right interpretation and everyone else is wrong.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Dis-Member

  The Bible speaks of many men of old that had this wonderful illusive faith which are meant to inspire us. But of course they did! They saw fire a lightning come from the sky, they heard the thunderous voice of God from the heavens, they saw countless vast enemy armies vanquished with miraculous supernatural forces and whole cities swallowed with with fire and brimstone right before their eyes.
  
  Of course they would then have faith after experiencing such things if true.
  
  Later according to the same Bible in Jesus time people had faith only and because they saw him perform countless impossible miracles and bend the laws of nature.

  People in those times prayed to God and often got an unmistakable response from him in less than 5 minutes. People today can pray for 50 years and have no response what so ever.
  
  God was seemingly far more friendly and sociable back then and liked humans more making several of them his 'friend'.
  
  I'm sure if any of us today saw or experienced a single iota of this we would have the most unbendable and unbreakable and valid faith. But we don't.
  
  In fact no human has experienced any direct interaction what so ever with God for over 2,000 years. We instead are told that we must have this same unbendable, unbreakable faith based on mere stories, legends, fables, parables passed down in copied, translated, manipulated, twisted, even possibly fabricated untrustworthy and unreliable documents written in languages we can not read and the veracity of which too can never ever be proven.
  
  This is a form of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 20th, and even a hundredth hand faith. Faith in the story of the faith of another person is not real faith.
  
  We are then also told in that same Bible and by those that promote it that of we do not have this faith we are utterly rejected by God. Apparently to be acceptable to God, it is necessary for one to exercise faith in Jesus Christ, and this makes possible a righteous standing with God. (Ga 2:16) Those lacking such faith are rejected by God.—Joh 3:36; compare Heb 11:6.
  
  The men that wrote that either knew or had a real and personal experience of God and Jesus so it was easy for them to say and write such things. No one in 2,000 years has had any such real experience.
  
  It seems that to have a real faith today in an uncontactable God and a 2,000 year absent Jesus is a physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual impossibility.
  
  
  What is needed to have genuine faith then is not the study of some dusty old antiquated parchments housed in the British Museum or the Vatican Library but rather for the living God to actually unmistakably do something in our lives today, right now to inspire and foster such faith. Without this there can be no surprise that the world is in utter and total confusion as to the existence, identity, nature and will of God.
• 
  76

  Losing Faith in Faith..

  by Dis-Member in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i came across this lecture at 3am not being able to sleep by dan baker.

  it details his transition from christian fundamentalist to atheist and the various shades in-between.

  he realises that every denomination of christian can open the bible and prove to you that they have the right interpretation and everyone else is wrong.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Dis-Member

  I came across this lecture at 3am not being able to sleep by Dan Baker. It details his transition from Christian fundamentalist to atheist and the various shades in-between. He realises that every denomination of Christian can open the Bible and prove to you that they have the right interpretation and everyone else is wrong. The Bible can be used to prove just about anything you like.
  
  "God is not the author of confusion". Can you think of a single book that's caused more confusion than the Bible? What is literal and what is metaphorical? Everyone thinks that they have the right way and they all disagree with each other. And Jesus does not return and God is silent for thousands of years and never shows himself.
  
  How on earth are we meant to believe in any of it? Faith based upon nothing is madness.
  
  If I am honest with myself the whole idea of a non-provable faith in anything is seeming more and more to me like believing in fairy stories. I personally can not prove a single thing of what I believe. I can't even defend it. What business do I have in believing it in the first place then? Merely saying 'because the Bible says so' is no longer enough as we already know they Bible can say anything you want it to.
  
  I also can not prove that the Bible is anything more than an old book that not a single person in history has ever understood. How can I ever possibly hope to.

  "Let's be honest here.. there simply is no verifiable testabable evidenece for a God.. if there was someone would have won the nobel prize by now".
  
  He also discusses the hypocrisy and insincerity of acting like you believe something when you don't. (ie: attendance and participation at meetings and ministry) Something very many in here do and have done for years.
  
  
  Here's the lecture. You may find that a lot of what this guys says resonating with you. It certainly does me.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmPqUkB-mVE
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  30

  Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i stopped attending meetings over one year ago, and i have thoroughly made it clear to all friends & family that i am opposed to the teachings of jehovah's witnesses, and i cannot support a religion that teaches lies.. i have systematically examined each teaching & practice of the jehovah's witnesses.

  concluding that many are not scriptural or logical.. after a year i have very unexpectedly arrived at another conclusion.

  the jehovah's witnesses do have the truth.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Dis-Member

  I know what I don't believe any more.. as for what I do belive.. I honestly don't have any idea.
• 
  30

  Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i stopped attending meetings over one year ago, and i have thoroughly made it clear to all friends & family that i am opposed to the teachings of jehovah's witnesses, and i cannot support a religion that teaches lies.. i have systematically examined each teaching & practice of the jehovah's witnesses.

  concluding that many are not scriptural or logical.. after a year i have very unexpectedly arrived at another conclusion.

  the jehovah's witnesses do have the truth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Dis-Member

  If almost any idea can be proved from the BIble how on earth do you decide what you belive in? And does that not just make any and every idea whimsical fancy? Does not then belief itself become ridiculous and pointless?
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  12

  Something Beautiful to Contemplate when in a Time of Darkness

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in east and south asian thought, lotus flowers have a symbolic significance.

  the plant grows in mud, but produces a flower of great beauty.

  in a time of darkness, it can become a symbol of hope:.

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  Dis-Member

  Cute. Flowers are said to symboize many things.. unfortunately hope is not high on the list.

  Symbolic Meanings of Herbs, Flowers and Trees
  Aloe	Healing, protection, affection
  Angelica	Inspiration
  Arborvitae	Unchanging friendship
  Bachelor's button	Single blessedness
  Basil	Good wishes
  Bay	Glory
  Black-eyed Susan	Justice
  Carnation	Alas for my poor heart
  Chamomile	Patience
  Chives	Usefulness
  Chrysanthemum	Cheerfulness
  Clover, white	Think of me
  Coriander	Hidden worth
  Cumin	Fidelity
  Crocus, spring	Youthful gladness
  Daffodil	Regard
  Daisy	Innocence, hope
  Dill	Powerful against evil
  Edelweiss	Courage, devotion
  Fennel	Flattery
  Fern	Sincerity
  Forget-me-not	Forget-me-not
  Geranium, oak-leaved	True friendship
  Goldenrod	Encouragement
  Heliotrope	Eternal love
  Holly	Hope
  Hollyhock	Ambition
  Honeysuckle	Bonds of love
  Horehound	Health
  Hyacinth	Constancy of love, fertility
  Hyssop	Sacrifice, cleanliness
  Iris	A message
  Ivy	Friendship, continuity
  Jasmine, white	Sweet love
  Lady's-mantle	Comforting
  Lavender	Devotion, virtue
  Lemon balm	Sympathy
  Lilac	Joy of youth
  Lily-of-the-valley	Sweetness
  Marjoram	Joy and happiness
  Mint	Virtue
  Morning glory	Affection
  Myrtle	The emblem of marriage, true love
  Nasturtium	Patriotism
  Oak	Strength
  Oregano	Substance
  Pansy	Thoughts
  Parsley	Festivity
  Pine	Humility
  Poppy, red	Consolation
  Rose, red	Love, desire
  Rosemary	Remembrance
  Rue	Grace, clear vision
  Sage	Wisdom, immortality
  Salvia, blue	I think of you
  Salvia, red	Forever mine
  Savory	Spice, interest
  Sorrel	Affection
  Southernwood	Constancy, jest
  Sweet pea	Pleasures
  Sweet William	Gallantry
  Sweet woodruff	Humility
  Tansy	Hostile thoughts
  Tarragon	Lasting interest
  Thyme	Courage, strength
  Tulip, red	Declaration of love
  Valerian	Readiness
  Violet	Loyalty, devotion, faithfulness
  Willow	Sadness
  Yarrow	Everlasting love
  Zinnia	Thoughts of absent friends
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  3

  Hercules/Samson who came first??

  by jam in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this was discuss two years ago, here.

  i never realize the greek god.

  hercules a different name the same as samsom.lol.

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  Dis-Member

  http://www.oldkingjames.com/WORKS/hercules_samson.html