Posts by mrhhome

692

abortion vs holocaust

by unstopableravens in

mrhhome

The issue comes down to two questions. (1) When does life begin? (2) Under what circumstances is one justified to end a life?

To answer my own questions:

(1) There is a heart beat, neural activity, and substantial differentiation by the end of the first trimester. I believe that there is a recognizable human entity by week 7-8 of the pregnancy. Put differently, I think that an abortion at the end of the first trimester is too late. At the same time, I do not believe that there is anything wrong with the morning after pill.

(2) (a) If the mom's life is endangered, you have to choose between two lifes. It is Mom's choice. (b) In cases of rape or incent, one has a dillemma. The baby is innocent. However, the mom really had no choice in the matter. In this case, I think common sense dictates that we have to give mom a choice. At the same time, this opens a can of worms. Any woman who ends up with an unwanted baby is going to scream "rape." Of course, maybe that will teach guys to keep it in their pants. I stick with my answer. It is the mom's choice. (c) In cases where there is evidence that the baby has a fatal condition, I think that it is justified. I support euthanasia. This is no different. (d) In cases where the baby simply is not wanted, it is not justified.

If someone ends an innocent life without justification, it is murder. Sorry ladies. All other issues are secondary.

While I do NOT agree with raven on all points, I think that the basic premise is accurate. Why do we turn a blind eye to ending an innocent life in some circumstances and not others?

18

Feedback on Letter

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

looking for feedback.

to bring you all back up to speed, wife is ex-jw.

shunned by her brother and parts of her family at uncles jw funeral.

mrhhome

Looking for feedback. To bring you all back up to speed, wife is ex-JW. Shunned by her brother and parts of her family at uncle’s JW funeral. I ripped into her brother pretty hard. Since then, there has been some e-mail traffic back and forth. Her JW mom seems to be attempting to reconcile. Her brother’s latest correspondence was typical JW nonsense. “I am trying to respect your believes, but you are not respecting mine.”

My dilemma is this. I do not want to impede the reconciliation with her family. At the same time, I want to make my position clear. This crap needs to end. After sitting on it for a couple of months, I have crafted the following reply to her brother.

***************

I think you were right to focus on the “respect” theme, but, I have to ask. How did you respect my beliefs?

I quietly avoided the Jehovah Witness issue for 13 years, despite knowing the whole ugly story. I did so out of respect to my Witness in-laws and my desire to avoid unnecessary conflict. By contrast, you all decided to make an issue out of it while [my wife] was attending a funeral to support her father. Is that respect?

Your sister is a faithful wife who prays with her children, feeds the poor, visits widows, and teaches children the bible. While it may have not been your intention, this is the woman you essentially called a slut (1 Cor 5) in front of her family. Is that respect?

Given that the current Jehovah Witness policies towards the disassociated date back to the Raymond Franz incident, is it disrespectful or unreasonable to question the motives of those who set those policies?

Like it or not, we are going to have to deal with these issues from time to time. How you run your household is your business. However, [my wife] is part of my household. If the Witnesses have an issue with [my wife], too bad. I expect her to be treated with every respect, regardless of the circumstances or who is involved.

I am willing to put January behind us as an unfortunate mistake for all involved, but I am not going to appease the Witnesses at the cost of throwing [my wife] under the bus.

******************

Thoughts?

5

A different perspective

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

not much new to report on the jw front.

happily, i and my family have been able to avoid them for the most part.

my ex-jw wife appears to be patching things up with her jw mother, and i am beginning to think that my non-jw father-in-law actually enjoyed watching me put his jw relations in their place.

mrhhome

I agree that growing is a metric of "goodness." However, I object on two points.

First, you cannot in modern society lump Christianity into one homogenius basket. At one extreme you have JW and fundamentalist. At the other, you have the Unitarian church. A full spectrum in between with various views on the Bible, science, and the value truths discovered through personal (non-scriptural) experiences.

Second, Christianity like any system does some good and some bad. I believe that on the whole it does more good than bad.

To continue with the physical analogies, I view it like a compressor. No compressor operates at 100% efficiency. Not all the energy goes into increasing the pressure. Some of it turns into wasted heat. Likewise, no faith is 100% efficient. It promotes some positive things and some negatives things.

In the case of the JW, it is the gas turbine compressor in surge shooting flames out the front. Best just to keep your distance and stay safe.

288

Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.

i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.

it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.

mrhhome

We are here because we can THINK and REASON.

There are a number of diagnoses that could apply, all of them treatable with medication.

The irony is overwhelming. Those calling for a rational discussion are acting like children throwing stones at someone they do not like.

Why does this discussion provoke such an emotional reaction in atheist? This is not a discussion about reason, logic, or science. It is starting to sound more like a therapy session dealing with unresolved issues.

5

A different perspective

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

not much new to report on the jw front.

happily, i and my family have been able to avoid them for the most part.

my ex-jw wife appears to be patching things up with her jw mother, and i am beginning to think that my non-jw father-in-law actually enjoyed watching me put his jw relations in their place.

mrhhome

Satanus. We agree on some fronts and disagree on others. I disagree that Christianity worked poorly. Quite the opposite, I think that it held society together.

I will not deny that it can produce some questionable results when taken to the extreme. JW are an example, or for that matter, any power individual abusing it for their own benefit.

5

A different perspective

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

not much new to report on the jw front.

happily, i and my family have been able to avoid them for the most part.

my ex-jw wife appears to be patching things up with her jw mother, and i am beginning to think that my non-jw father-in-law actually enjoyed watching me put his jw relations in their place.

mrhhome

A few more perspectives:

(1) There has been recent work on civil society. Generally speaking, the concept is that instituations like church and family mediate between extreme individualism and complete state control. They fill in the gap. With the demise of these institutions, we are seeing the rise of extreme individualism (anarchy) and extreme state control (tyranny).

The church has been under constant attack in Western society. Yet no one has offered a better alternative. Despite the fact that science is worshiped as some sort of religion, it is not a moral code. It simply is a limited body of knowledge and a process of discovery. Both of which often become mangled in practice. Despite what anyone may say, Human secularism is just coffee shop philosophy that does not offer any meaningful answers.

(2) The "I believe what I can measure" attitude puts severe limitations on our perception of "life, the universe, and everything." You need to be looking to find something. Atheist aren't looking.

(3) Personally experiences / revelations do not lend themselves well to scienctific review. Quite often, they do not even lend themselves to articulation.

5

A different perspective

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

not much new to report on the jw front.

happily, i and my family have been able to avoid them for the most part.

my ex-jw wife appears to be patching things up with her jw mother, and i am beginning to think that my non-jw father-in-law actually enjoyed watching me put his jw relations in their place.

mrhhome

Not much new to report on the JW front. Happily, I and my family have been able to avoid them for the most part. My ex-JW wife appears to be patching things up with her JW mother, and I am beginning to think that my non-JW father-in-law actually enjoyed watching me put his JW relations in their place. Not that he would say it.

I confess that I have enjoyed the theist vs atheist debates. They have been thought provoking. Given my eclectic background, I have a rather non-tradition perspective on the subject.

When I was first out of graduate school, I conducted a substantial amount of performance modeling with a team that was arguably the best in the country. On one project, I worked with a researcher who wanted to make sure that his component in the system was modeled correctly. As I dove into this legacy model, I discovered an ugly batchwork of curve fits based on empirical data loosely correlated to physical parameters that was possibly decades old with layer after layer of corrections built on top of it. Suddenly, I realized that I too was forced to add corrections on top of this. I had a model that worked and generally speaking accurately represented the system. If I rewrote everything from scratch, it would be an absolute bear to validate the new model and very likely screw everything up.

I have encountered this several times through out my career. You have a model that accurate represents the system within its limits. If you push it to one extreme or another, it starts acting flaky; but then again, the mark of experience was knowing not to push the model to an extreme.

My view of Christianity is similar. Let's face it. Most of the Bible was written over two millenia ago. Like these models, it may not be the highest fidelity. However generally speaking, it works well if you do not push it to an absurd extreme. The JW are a walking example of what happens when you push it to an absurd extreme. There is millenia of collective wisdom that accurately captures the complexities of humanity. When this collective wisdom is in action in society, it has its own unique aggragate behavior and can be considered an entity. I give this entity spiritual significance. Not because I believe in a God that exists outside nature, but because I believe that the collective wisdom only can be understood symbolically given its extremely complex nature.

288

Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.

i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.

it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.

mrhhome

To answer the question about my background, Masters of Science in Engineering. Pre-Engineering I worked for a Zoologist research who went on to become one of the best in his field. Pre-graduate school, I worked on a research vessel with several world reknown marine biologist and oceanographers. Early in my career, I was heavy into modeling and analysis. Spent the last 6 years in applied research (more empirical in nature). Worked with numerous PhDs throughout my career.

90

Why do so many think JW Religion is a Cult? (NO APOSTATES PLEASE)

by Brother Mike in

jw
friends

my question is, why do so many think the watchtower bible tract society is a cult?

.

mrhhome

Let me make this simple. Using emotional black mail to enforce control makes the JW a cult. You can use cute rhetoric all day, but in the end, that meets any common sense definition.

90

Why do so many think JW Religion is a Cult? (NO APOSTATES PLEASE)

by Brother Mike in

jw
friends

my question is, why do so many think the watchtower bible tract society is a cult?

.

mrhhome

Brother Mike,

I am not an apostate, and I agree with what has been said above. I have witnessed the destruction of your organization first hand. The Witnesses meet the text book definition of cult.

In most modern Protestant churches, you can disagree over doctrine without fear of being shunned by family and friends. Likewise, you can challenge the leadership without fear of being shunned by family and friends. [I know, because I have on both accounts.] If you did the same thing in the JW, you run the risk of being DF'ed and being shunned by family and friends.

The JW are an organization that claims to be following the bible but are led by a governing body that has no scriptural foundation. Likewise, JW leadership routinely twists scripture out of context to justify their power trip.

Finally and most importantly, actions speak louder than words. I have watched people, who were good loving Christians sincerely following Christ's example, shunned by their family as the result of JW pressure.

If the JW do not like being considered a cult, maybe they should stop acting like one.