Villagegirl... you made an eloquent point. Consider edited out the personal attack before this turns into mud slinging contest.
mrhhome
JoinedPosts by mrhhome
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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mrhhome
to commit to and act in accord with teachings on the basis of others' claims and little else
Children do in school all the time. You are placing faith in your teachers. When most of us quote science, we are placing our faith that the scientist did their job correctly. Honestly, how many of us go back and re-verify science?
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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mrhhome
Crofty,
Faith in the context of the OP is nothing like that at all.
I am not sure that it that far from it.
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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mrhhome
Cofty,
Surely the honest and mature way to deal with questions for which we don't have sufficient evidence is to say "I don't know". Pretending to ourselves and others to now things we cannot know is not a virtue.
Yes and no. I would argue that blind, unquestioning faith can be dangerous. As an example, the JW willingness to shun family based on a twisted interpretation of scripture. In this case, they have suspended their natural sense of morality to satisfy blind faith. In such circumstances, acknowledging some uncertainty would obviously be a good thing.
On the other hand, you need a working model in your head of how the universe operates as you face each day. Some of it is based on my own personal experience. Some of it is based on that taught to me by others. Would you have me ignore 3000+ years of wisdom on how to interact with my neighbors and the universe around me?
[Sorry for all the edits.]
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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mrhhome
Oubliette asks good questions.
Approaching the matter from a different direction, we all encounter uncertainty in our life. When faced with this, we make decision about what lies inside that uncertainty and proceed appropiately. Sometimes, it is easy to test our theories about what lies inside that area of uncertainty and make immediate course corrections if needed. Other times, we never completely resolve the uncertainty and are left hoping that we made a good decision.
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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mrhhome
I challenge the OP on a couple of different fronts.
(1) What is wrong with having faith in something that you may not be able to prove? Contrary to your assertion otherwise, I see nothing wrong with it if something good comes out of it. Now when it is twisted to serve the selfish ends of a few at the expense of others, it obviously has become a bad thing.
(2) Do you believe that there are natural forces in the universe that man still does not understand? If so, are you going to deride somebody for their (admittedly speculative) belief in what that force is?
An analogy. It is common for an engineer to encoutner solutions developed by non-degreed folk who provide an explanation absolutely lacking in solid physical principles. Consequently, the engineer decides that their explanation is foolish, ignores their solution, and screws up everything in the process. Who is more foolish? The people who developed a solution but did not understand how it worked, or the engineer who understood all the physics but undid a working solution?
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32
Scriptural Basis for Obedience to GB?
by mrhhome ini have a genuine question for the jw apologist.
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what is your scriptural justification for your unquestioning obedience to the governing body and your unwillingness to question their intepretation of scripture?.
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mrhhome
problemaddict,
I am not sure that I understand "What does them being appointed over domestics?" I am not sure that I understand the question.
Even if we concede that it is a prophecy for the sake of argument, how do they know that the Governing Board was appointed by God and Jesus? ...because the Governing Board told them so? That self-serving circular logic should make even the most unreasonable person's head hurt.
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Scriptural Basis for Obedience to GB?
by mrhhome ini have a genuine question for the jw apologist.
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what is your scriptural justification for your unquestioning obedience to the governing body and your unwillingness to question their intepretation of scripture?.
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mrhhome
How do you believe the Governing Bodys current role is granted to them scripturally?
Problemaddict... I like how your rephrased the question. So how do you believe the Governing Body's role is granted to them scripturally?
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If I asked for a loan from the WBTS would they give it to me?
by objectivetruth inif this were the "organization" that jesus chose in 1914.. err 1919, wouldn't the principles that he laid out while on earth apply to this organization as well?.
matthew 5:42 "give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.".
so if jw's all asked for loans from the org, every now and then, it would be the orgs responsibility to grant those loans (interest free).
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mrhhome
awatcher,
The WTBTS gives people the most precious gift that can be had: a chance to find and serve the true God, Jehovah.
If you were never able to figure this out, then you missed the whole point of being one of JW's.
...and Jesus and scripture teaches us the true way to serve...to give food and shelter to the widow...to help those in need...
Respectfully, you are missing the point of what God expects from us. Thank you for clearly demonstrating what is fundamentally wrong with the WTBTS. You can tell a tree by its fruit.
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Are you complicit if you stay in?
by mrhhome ini am going to throw down the gaunlet.
those who know the truth but stay in anyways are complicit in actions of the jehovah witness organization.
while i am sympathetic to the very difficult choices that they have to make, their unwillingness to confront the jw enables the organization.. some of you may remember my story.
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mrhhome
Good discussion. Thank you all who participated.