especially if you are a teacher, how did you learn about it to begin with?
was there a common core rep doing a slick presentation?.
how do those of you with kids on school feel about, among others, things such as the deemphasis on the great works of literature ?.
Yes, there is some "conservative" dogma as well. Keep in mind, most of what is pushed as news and commentary is actually entertainment. True for both conservative and liberal view points.
I will elaborate on "blindly accepted tenets" later. I am spending too much on this forum. But this topic got me fired up.
Thank you nonjwspouse for fighting the good fight. You are making good points and standing tall in the face of intense fire. Keep it up.
especially if you are a teacher, how did you learn about it to begin with?
was there a common core rep doing a slick presentation?.
how do those of you with kids on school feel about, among others, things such as the deemphasis on the great works of literature ?.
LisaRose,
Thank you for asking me to provide some examples. I am doing this from memory. Keep in mind, much of this is multiple choice in 3rd grade. Let’s break this into stuff that is absolutely wrong, stuff that is marginal, and stuff that makes no sense.
To provide some background, my oldest is a naturally gifted child. Testing at an 8+ grade level in math in the beginning of 5th grade. Etc. We really never had to help her in school. My middle child has her own unique gifts but reading is not one of them. She started this year with some problems. Mom and the teacher were not getting it fixed. I stepped in personally and started reviewing all of her classwork and tests.
Absolutely wrong: On a couple of tests per quarter, there are at least one or two vocabulary words that are flat-out wrong. As in the “correct” answer is verifiably wrong with a dictionary. Sometimes, the “incorrect” answers are actually closer to the proper definition. It is so frequent that I stopped bringing it to the teacher’s attention. Nothing she can do about it. Test are graded and recorded by the computer. These are publisher supplied tests based on the core curriculum. It is just plain sloppy.
Marginal: (1) Using words on tests that are above that grade level and have not been introduced to the student. (2) Testing concepts that have not been introduced to the student. [This was more of a problem in the first quarter, given that they have introduced most of the concepts by now.] (3) Many cases where the “correct” answer in a reading comprehension multiple choice test was debatable. (4) On reading comprehension homework, my daughter got a reading passage with the question “What is the main idea?” My wife and I both read the passage and debated the question for 15-30 mins. Our conclusion was that there wasn’t one. I have a graduate degree and my wife is wicked smart. Both of us read a great deal. If that is our conclusion, what do you expect a 3rd grader to do?
Stuff that makes no sense: (1) They are introducing algebra concepts (i.e. the distributive property) to kids in 3rd grade. Why? Because the kids have not mastered their complete multiplication tables, and they need to break the problem into smaller pieces [9x8=(9x2)+(9x2)+(9x2)+(9x2)]. Just to emphasize, they are teaching algebra concepts to kids who have not mastered their multiplication tables. WTF? I asked the obvious question. Instead of spending time teaching algebra, why not spend that time drilling them on their multiplication tables? (2) Several other examples of this in math. The kids get taught a “work around” to introduce a concept that is a few grade levels above them. My question is always the same. By the time you get done teaching them bad habits, you could have taught them how to do it right. Furthermore when they finally get to the grade where the concept is actually taught, the first thing you will need to do is unteach the bad habits.
This is complete nonsense.
Hold on a second. I want to make sure that I understand the dividing lines.
Does everyone agree that the two questions which need to be answered are (1) "When does life begin?" and (2) "Under what circumstances are we justified in ending a life?"
especially if you are a teacher, how did you learn about it to begin with?
was there a common core rep doing a slick presentation?.
how do those of you with kids on school feel about, among others, things such as the deemphasis on the great works of literature ?.
I'm out of time. I will return to the topic of "Critical Thinking" later.
Suffice it to say, I never said that you could not teach someone to think. I simply said that it is very difficult. It requires time and a great deal of individual attention. Given the constraints in the public classroom, it becomes even more difficult.
I love it when a teacher tells me that they were "taught" about "thinking." Did they actually "think" about "thinking", or did they simply adopted a definition defined by someone else and turn the crank on a process taught to them.
Maybe someday when you have to (a) solve problems that require real abstract thought with (b) people other than K-12 student that (c) come different cultures, backgrounds, behavior styles, communication styles, and very developed but unique gifts; you will begin spending more time "thinking" about "thinking."
I also have had to mentor people and develop their "problem solving" ability.
Got to go.
especially if you are a teacher, how did you learn about it to begin with?
was there a common core rep doing a slick presentation?.
how do those of you with kids on school feel about, among others, things such as the deemphasis on the great works of literature ?.
Do you realize that you just supported nonjwspouses point? [Talk about critical thinking skills.]
And the CCSS in mathematics, read carefully, clearly leave much of what ought to happen … in the upper division of high school optional, which is entirely consistent with the findings of our panel as well.
Prior to this statement, I dismissed the claims that the Common Core was a lower standard. You just verified it.
So let's make sure that we are clear. We are crowding out the basics in the lower grades and chopping off stuff at the top. Who exactly thought that this is a good idea?
especially if you are a teacher, how did you learn about it to begin with?
was there a common core rep doing a slick presentation?.
how do those of you with kids on school feel about, among others, things such as the deemphasis on the great works of literature ?.
It is disingenuous to seperate the problems with the course material and the Common Core. They are both part of the same general push. The text books are written to satisfy the Common Core.
I have discovered numerous problems with the course material. In many places, it is flat wrong. This is not a matter of political opinion. It is a matter of comparison with commonly accepted sources of authority such as the Webster dictionary.
This is not just some complaint from loony parents. This is coming from teachers and administrators as well. As one Vice President told me, "The people who are making these decisions obviously are not talking to the teachers who are actually working with the students."
They are pushing more skills down into lower grades. At first, this may sound like a good idea. Unfortunately, you reach a limit where it begins producing catastrophic effects. You only have a limited number of hours in the day to teach material. If you start adding high level material, you are spending less time teaching the basics. If you sacrifice the foundation of the basics, all the higher skills are a waste of time.
especially if you are a teacher, how did you learn about it to begin with?
was there a common core rep doing a slick presentation?.
how do those of you with kids on school feel about, among others, things such as the deemphasis on the great works of literature ?.
Wow. There is a great deal to cover here. I will spread my response over several posts.
First, I would like to thank Oubliette for her post / response. You have illustrated several of my points on other threads beautifully. There is not much difference between religion and liberal / progressive secular dogma. They are both founded on blindly accepted tenets. They both are passionately evangelicized by their proponents who simply cite different sources of authority.
Normally, I try very hard not to get personal. Forgive me if I do on this subject. You are pushing something that is directly impacting my family. You are dismissing any concerns with the "we know best" / "we are smarter than you" / "your are a fool" response. [Did you learn that technique from the JW?] Sorry, that response is not going to cut it. They are my children. I have seen things that give me reason for concern, and you have not adequately addressed my concerns. Until YOU do, ...how did you say it Obliette..."refrain from further comments!"
BTW, did you say which grade you teach?
especially if you are a teacher, how did you learn about it to begin with?
was there a common core rep doing a slick presentation?.
how do those of you with kids on school feel about, among others, things such as the deemphasis on the great works of literature ?.
I have had some first hand experience with common core as a parent.
looking for feedback.
to bring you all back up to speed, wife is ex-jw.
shunned by her brother and parts of her family at uncles jw funeral.
No, he did not actually call her a slut, but he did cite 1 Cor 5 as he was thumping the bible. If you read it in context, that text was never intended for apostates. It was intended to throw out people who were enchanged in some pretty serious sexual immorality and bragging about it in church.
my question is, why do so many think the watchtower bible tract society is a cult?
.
I have to agree with Band on the Run. Once as lay leader at a UMC, I had to eject a member of the youth. He was supplying guns, knives, and tabacco to other youth. One gun ended up in a school. Luckily, no one got hurt.
I had a heart-to-heart talk with the kid first and actually got through his thick skull that this crap needed to end. Unfortunately, he went home to Mom and cried that I was being mean. She read me the riot act, and I kicked him out over the objections of the pastor. Enough was enough. Ironically, I actually helped the kid who brought the gun to school. He instantly realized that it was an incredibly dumb thing to do, and his parents asked for my support. The kid has since gotten his life completely turned around. (Funny how a a few nights in jail will make a kid really comtemplate their actions.)
There is one big difference between my actions and the JW. I never told anyone that they had to shun the kid that got kicked out. Quite the opposite, I intended to pull him back in after everyone had had some time to think about it for a while. Unfortunately, I left that church before I ever got a chance to do so.
There was no emotional black mail trying to seperate him from family and friends. Just an honest attempt to keep the other youth under my care safe.
