mrhhome

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Posts by mrhhome

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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

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  mrhhome

  So I repeat the question: give me ONE example of a FACT that was unknown at the time of Jesus, but that is common knowledge today, and accepted as a FACT; perhaps something Jesus revealed which was something ONLY the Son of God could know... - adamah

  That is easy. He predicted the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, which occurred almost 40 years later. Of course, the story is told in a gospel supposedly written after the destruction of the temple, and that story is used to date the writing of the scripture. Then again, if Jesus really did predict the destruction of the temple, that is not a valid way of dating the writing of those scriptures.

  Establishing verifiable facts is difficult with any historical event. Study ancient greek history. There is all sorts of academic debate on historical events and figures even without supernatural phenomena. Unfortunately when studying history, you have a single unique event which is often recorded by biased writers decades later. You can conduct all the critical analysis that you want. Ultimately, you just will never know what actually happened. You just pick a version of the story that you believe.
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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mrhhome

  Hmmm, it sounds to me like someone's using their "horribly flawed mortal (fallible) moral compass" to reach moral decisions anyway? Isn't that a sin? - adamah

  No, ultimately everyone has to follow their own moral compass. What else are we going to follow? If we sincerely seek the will of God in prayerful consideration, I believe that the we will be led by the Holy Spirit.

  Do we run the risk of being misled by our own selfish desires? Of course, that is always a risk. At the same time, I believe that blindly following scripture or church doctrine without applying reason and prayerful consideration is equally dangerous.

  As for the role of reason in all this, the church has advocated the application of reason for almost two millennia. The Church father Augustine of Hippo advocated the use of reason. John Wesley, the founder of the Methodists, advocated reason. This is not a new concept. Unfortunately, some of this rich tradition has been abandoned by more modern movements such as JW.

  Adamah, I think that you are having an imaginary argument with a fundamentalist or possibly a JW.

  I'd say that it's more likely for there to be 7 billion concepts of God out there, which should tell you something: could it be that all these various images of God(s) are actually stemming from the images created in the minds of men? Ya' think? - mrhhome

  Not necessarily. I know that 7 billion seems like a really big number, but it is infinitesimally small compared to the infinite. If we are all pulling on different strings of the infinite trapesty of God and his universe, we are all going to have slightly different perspectives.

  [For all you mathematicians out there. Spare me the discussion about infinity and limits. I know.]

  I've read many books on the subject already, but sure, what did you have in mind? - adamah

  I am currently reading the "The Big Book of Christian Mysticism" in parallel to several house projects. Give me a chance to work through that book, and I will get back to you on Deuteronomy.
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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mrhhome

  adamah, I assume that you are talking about a scripture such as Deut 20. This is obviously a hard scripture. It has caused people to scratch their heads for almost two millenia. No, I do not condone slavery, nor do I condone killing gays.

  Deuteronomy was written circa 600 BC about what someone (i.e. Moses) said God told them 800 years prior. Good reason alone to approach it with caution. Being a Methodist, I apply reason, tradition, and personal experience when studying scripture to discern God's will. Fortunately, none of which condone slavery or killing gays.

  Is it "inspired"? I believe that the Bible is a story of people trying to understand God. It chronicles how their understanding of God evolved. Mistakes and all. As such, it is "inspired" in that we can learn from it. Sometimes, hard passages like this generate the most discussion, which is good. No, I do not believe that God changed his mind, even though I have heard some Christians claim as such.

  There are books and books providing commentary on Deuteronomy. If you want, we can pick one that is mutually acceptable and begin a book review thread. Deuternomy has certainly generated considerable discussion in the church dating all the way back to Pauline letters.

  Sorry that I do not fit into one of your pigeon holes.
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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  mrhhome

  mrhhome - your previous statements read in context would suggest are a bigot...

  I am certainly willing to have a rational, dispassionate discussion of the issues with someone who does likewise. This does not qualify.
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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mrhhome

  adamah, have I ever advocated following Deuteronomical law?
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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mrhhome

  Did you really just say that unbelievers are immoral?

  My statement was pretty clear. What we believe impacts what we do. Some actions are moral and some immoral.

  Would you deny that generally speaking Christians and athetist fall on different sides of important moral debates? [Abortion, same sex marriage, etc.]

  I do, however, make a clear distinction between the actions and the people. With the exception of a few extreme cases, I would not label someone immoral, because we all fall somewhere on the spectrum. It is not my place to judge a person. However, I will (am obligated to?) decide what actions are right and wrong.
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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mrhhome

  Below is data that I have posted 2 times previously, but you and other theists ignore it and similar data and simply spew idioacy. - DJS

  I am glad you posted again. I saw your previous post but had moved onto new threads. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to address this.

  There is much to address in your post, but let's give this this the rigorous treatment that it deserves. Please post the links to all the studies and data you referenced. I am especially interested in the last.

  The more religious a state’s population, the higher the crime, STD and teen pregnancy rates.

  Let's work our way through this methodically.
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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mrhhome

  Correction to my previous post:

  I would not expect the "Gentile Christians" to say anything nice about the Jews who revolted against Rome. The Gentile Christians were busy trying to save their own hides.
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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mrhhome

  Anti-semitic racism. - Cofty

  For once, I have to agree with Cofty. There is some blantant anti-semitism in the Bible.

  Having said that, one has to consider the historical background. You had "Jewish Christianity" probably centered around the original disciples and led by "James the Just." At the same time, you had a rapidly growing "Gentile Christianity" created by the apostle Paul. The "Jewish Christians" probably were wiped out in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66-70 AD for all practical purposes. I hold to the view that they were somehow involved in the revolt. This is about the same time that Nero was persecuting the Christians. The Gentile Christians were doing everything they could do to put as much distance between themselves and the "Jewish Christians."

  I would not expect the "Gentile Christians" to say anything nice about the "Jewish Christians". The Gentile Christians were busy trying to save their own hide.
• 
  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mrhhome

  I have not read all 6 pages of posts, but this thread has been remarkably polite. This post will probably change that.

  Faith = good and moral. Lack of faith = bad and immoral

  I would not use the words good people and bad people. Those words are entirely too broad and carry the baggage of unintended connotations. However, there are real meaningful differences in how believers and non-believers behave. That does not imply that believers are somehow superior to the non-believers. Nor does it imply that believers are perfect people who never make mistakes and are above criticism. Obviously, it does mean that I believe that I am right and they are wrong. If the topic is mores, it means that my actions are moral and theirs are immoral.

  If there are no “fruits of the spirit,” then how can any Christian claim that we believe in anything real? Fortunately, you do not have to be a rocket scientist to review the postings on this board and conclude that believers and non-believers generally differ on important moral questions.

  Having said that, there are many Christians who do not demonstrate the fruits of the spirit. Ironically, that is my litmus test for JW. I do not care where they stand on doctrinal issues. If I do not see the fruits of the spirit, I do not consider them Christians no matter how much they thump the Bible. Likewise, I left the Southern Baptist when I went to college, because I felt that they missed the forest for the trees.