Not calling myself a christian and doubting the jesus story christmas was never a big issue to me. I never really liked to wait till a holiday to give a gift or share my love with someone. I do like the lights and colors but hate the crowds and hate to feel compelled to buy gifts. I much rather enjoy spontanious gifts when they are unexpected and hugs of those I care about each time I see them. In fact I have been out of the org for a very long time and have yet to go to a christmas party- bah humbug- I rather prefer halloween- that is when I can go out in the natural- no mask needed here HA HA!
kelsey007
JoinedPosts by kelsey007
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How was your first Christmas?
by dazedgrl ini've been doing a lot of thinking about christmas with it coming up so quickly.
its a little overwhelming rethinking your whole belief system.
how many of you celebrate?
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ESP Experiment
by rem inplease take a moment and do this esp experiment.
it's fascinating!.
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/esp.html.
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kelsey007
This is a simple trick. To understand how it works write down ALL the cards on the screen prior to clicking the eye. You will note that ALL the cards on the new screen are different!
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Stop Taking Bill's or Ray's Side!
by Derrick ingsark wrote:.
if they hold ray franz responsible in some way then i am on their side one hundred percent.. .
the very implication behind this comment is chilling to me.
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kelsey007
ballistic I am not inferring that this has stopped. It is a basic question. Pediphiles are a problem of our society and of mankind in general. This I know. My understanding is that silent lambs is seeking to change WT policy in dealing with pediphiles. Do they have a very recent case that shows that the WT is still using their silent appraoch to the problem? Has there been any new, recent cases that clearly demonstrate that the WT is still covering up for such things- going forward so to speak? The WT has claimed certain policies publicly. Silent Lambs has brought attention to many cases that occurred in years past and lawsuits are being brought. The WT may never make a bold statement that they have changed their policies but may quietly start moving in another direction to CYA. I would never believe that they would stand before Bill Bowen or anyone else and admit the need to change policy- but with my experience in the WT I would believe that they would quietly and maybe just orally give new direction in regards to the 2- witness rule. If such happened it could only be recognized from the handling of new cases. Of course then again- from a religious viewpoint they could legally abide by the 2-witness rule and still report all allegations of abuse to the police. What they choose to do within the congregation does in and of itself not effect the outcome of reporting to the police. So in reality, even though convicted in a secular court one could remain in good standing in the org if there are not two witnesses or even if there are 2 witnesses and the accused is judged to be repentant. I guess to me that means they could keep their 2 witness rule as long as they reported all allegations to the police.
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God/Bible...why does it cause Anger/Bitterness?
by gumby ini was on another thread today reeming out pomegranite when he replied back with"why do you get so angry and bitter with the way i feel"?
he said"do i hurt you or others".
he really made me think.
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kelsey007
Wind I feel compelled to impell that I agree.
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Stop Taking Bill's or Ray's Side!
by Derrick ingsark wrote:.
if they hold ray franz responsible in some way then i am on their side one hundred percent.. .
the very implication behind this comment is chilling to me.
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kelsey007
Since the challenges have been laid out so well- I have an honest question in regards to silent lambs. This is not an intended slam or something negative- just an honest question- Have they exposed or come up with any pediphile case that occurred recently- I am not saying 5 to 10 years ago. I am saying in the last year or so. It seems that all the cases of alleged pediphile cases I have seen brought out by silent lambs occurred some time back. Therefore I was wondering if there are no recent cases where the crime was committed in the last year or so- well has there been any such uncovered and please lead me to a link that doccuments this.
ThankYou
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A funny thing just happened on CNN with J.W's
by anakinsrise ina humorous moment just happened on the news.
the news crews were all staking out john mohammeds ex-wifes house where the car was registered.
neighbors said they go around wearing the muslim dress and shit.
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kelsey007
Of course this event will bolster the JW efforts. Free publicity shhowing them working diligently to aid others at understanding the bible.
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Post by Ray Franz
by Amazing inray franz requested that i post the following comments written by him:
as has been stated already, the presentation made from the silent lambs source in connection with the child abuse issue completely misrepresents my position.
when i spoke by phone recently with the author of that presentation, and pointed out that i had never expressed the views presented, his comment was that from his previous conversation with me (held some months earlier) he "got the impression that i was not on the same wave length" with him.
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kelsey007
IW I would agree with you but I feel the need for an apology should be addressed toward Mr Franz. On the other hand the actions of these two men have only served to strengthen my feelings toward not following man and to question actions and motivations of leaders of any movement before pledging my support. I credit Mr Franz for never having started a movement of any anti-witness campaign. There is little doubt that given the mans former position in the org and his knowledge that his cult would have been large. Thank you Mr Franz for not doing that. That was another of many of your wise choices.
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Post by Ray Franz
by Amazing inray franz requested that i post the following comments written by him:
as has been stated already, the presentation made from the silent lambs source in connection with the child abuse issue completely misrepresents my position.
when i spoke by phone recently with the author of that presentation, and pointed out that i had never expressed the views presented, his comment was that from his previous conversation with me (held some months earlier) he "got the impression that i was not on the same wave length" with him.
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kelsey007
Wednsday- Mr Franz can only speak from the perspctive that he knows. Why is his well worded and thought out repsonse being broken down word for word. Does one forget that he only felt compelled to provide a response due to harsh allegations having been brought to this arena- a forum that he has never even participated in? That is what is wrong with this picture. Mr Franz has not brought evil accusations against anyone here. But evil accusations were brought against him here and when he responds the reason for his response are overlooked and he is picked apart because he was locked in bethal for his adult life and saw things only in that frame for years. He has never put himself on an ugly mission to discredit. He has never sought to destroy. He has in a very good way enlightened and expressed genuine love for those he feels are misguided as he once was.
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Post by Ray Franz
by Amazing inray franz requested that i post the following comments written by him:
as has been stated already, the presentation made from the silent lambs source in connection with the child abuse issue completely misrepresents my position.
when i spoke by phone recently with the author of that presentation, and pointed out that i had never expressed the views presented, his comment was that from his previous conversation with me (held some months earlier) he "got the impression that i was not on the same wave length" with him.
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kelsey007
Dutchie- though I am from the south and am very slow I do see both sides. I do know that Mr Bowen threw out the mud on Mr Franz. Mr Franz certainly had a right to respond. Having had conversations with Mr Bowen and having been wrongfully attacked by some of his supporters it may be easy for me to take sides. Not having been privy to the conversations between Mr Bowen or Mr Franz I can in reality not take sides on the accusations thrown out by Mr Bowen. I can say that such personal attacks are not productive regardless of whether they are true or not. It seems that in one instance Mr Bowen solicited Mr Franz to align himself with the silent lambs movement and when Mr Franz decided not to Mr Bowen launched an attack. I can state that I believe that Mr Franz has publicly conducted himself in a much more mature fashion than Mr Bowen and I find that attactive about Mr Franz. As to Mr Franz's knowledge of pediphiles I cannot comment. It would be mere speculation on my part. I laugh that the silent lambs supporters say in one breath not to trust all that someone tells or post and in the other breath state that they have 100% loyalty to silent lambs regardless of what they say or do. I was not siding on the issue of something that I have no personal knowledge of.
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Post by Ray Franz
by Amazing inray franz requested that i post the following comments written by him:
as has been stated already, the presentation made from the silent lambs source in connection with the child abuse issue completely misrepresents my position.
when i spoke by phone recently with the author of that presentation, and pointed out that i had never expressed the views presented, his comment was that from his previous conversation with me (held some months earlier) he "got the impression that i was not on the same wave length" with him.
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kelsey007
I am mused by some of the responses in this thread. Why does ray do this or not do that and or how can you believe everything you read. Ok OK I get it- if silent lambs says it it has got to be believed- if anyone else says it it should be questioned- as I enjoy a good laugh at the irony of this board-