Posts by Abaddon

19

The Question Of ReligionThe Question of Atheism

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

the question of religionthe question of atheism recently, i posted some thoughts and questions about atheism and after having .

read some of the individual thoughts on that thread it is understandable why some.

individuals on both sides feel the way they do.

Abaddon

The wanderer

From my perspective,

Very true, and the entire issue (see below)

religion and atheism have a common denominator. One
believes in a Universal Creator or God and the other does not.

How can this be a common denominator? It is like saying 'Fred and Jane were identical as Fred likes jam and Jane didn't'.

They are differentiated by their beliefs in god.

I have decided that neither one nor the other fully answers the questions to life’s meaning

Of course atheism doesn't answer the questions to life's meaning! It isn't meant to. This doesn't mean in a godless Universe life can have no meaning, but what meaning we give it is a result of us not some intrinsicmeaning for our existence.

I suggest you seek to stop presupposing things; whilst you carry on making such assumptions you truely are;

“locked” into a belief system that does not allow for other views and perspectives on different subject matters.

All the best

39

Answering an evolutionist argument.

by hooberus in

the world is full of complex biological systems (for one example see below):.

here is a brief overview of the biochemistry of vision.

when light first strikes the retina, a photon interacts with a molecule called 11-cis-retinal, which rearranges within picoseconds to trans-retinal.

Abaddon

greendawn

if some of these mutations happen to be advantageous (1)

I can't imagine this being anything other than a random process driven by chance. (2)

This is where you are going wrong. You understand well enough upto the sentence I haven marked (1), but your mistake is thinking that the selection process in (1) is correctly described as you do in (2).

Whilst the VARIATION may well be random the SELECTION is not random. It is the entire point of the theory of natural selection... the selection is non random

For example, say you assign six chacteristics like this;

1: Brown Hair
2: Black Hair
3: Blonde Hair
4: Red Hair
5: Curly Hair
6: Straight Hair

... and then roll a six-sided die to assign one to a test organism.

The selection of which characteristic (or mutation) the test organism has is random.

However, if the organisms with characteristic 4 produce more offspring in the environment they dwell in than characteristics 1-3 and 5 & 6, eventually all the organisms in that environment will have red hair. This is not random. It really is SO not random...!

I know you've seen this explained a dozen times before in such threads. I hope the explanations you get on this thread are clearer and prevent you making this mistake again.

With such a profound misunderstanding of evolution it is not surprising you've found it hard to see it as a credible theory.

39

Answering an evolutionist argument.

by hooberus in

the world is full of complex biological systems (for one example see below):.

here is a brief overview of the biochemistry of vision.

when light first strikes the retina, a photon interacts with a molecule called 11-cis-retinal, which rearranges within picoseconds to trans-retinal.

Abaddon

It is unbelivable that Creationists can think their argument against evolution ("design requires a designer") is NOT a fallacy simply because they say "but in this case our postulated designer doesn't need a designer because we say so". It shows the self-obsesion and auto-idolatry that lies at the heart of every literalistic belief system where it is only the conceit of the literalist that they can understand scripture correctly that provides any basis for their belief structure.

Once again they wharp facts to suit theories rather than adapting theories to suit facts, and blashpheme against god by insisting god cannot cause what we see around us to come about as a result of evolution, even when all the evidence points to evolution occuring. They limit the power of the Almighty god because of their lack of faith.

Seriously, with believers like that god doesn't need atheists.

And hooberus, you knowBehe's irreducable complexity arguments have been falsified; why do you seek to deceive people by presenting it as credible science? Is dishonesty like that part of your Christian fruitage? I don't expect someone as evasive as yourself to answer me; I have been waiting several years for you to show how dendrochronolgy does not falsify literalist claims of a global flood. You make out your silence on the subject to be my fault, which is just more deciet as we all know if you had a credible argument against dendrochronology you would use it...

69

Final Thought About Atheism

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

final thought about atheismafter having reviewed the last thread about atheism, i have decided there.

exists a common theme among the postings.

the themes surrounding the .

Abaddon

The wanderer

Didn't you realise the Penn U thing wasn't academic?

Or do you think Student Union/Guild/Associations are academic?

Wow. I never knew that when I edited the University of Exeter's Student's Newspaper I could have been quoted as an authority on journalism!

Now, stop being silly and provide some proof of the paranormal, oh dear, you can't.

golf2

Someone THINKING they are in the grip of spirits/elves/Carebears, and someone actually being controlled by non-cororeal entities are two different things. The former beliefs are held by millions of people with mutually contradictory belief structures and explanations. The latter is something that has never been proved,

...unless screwing one's face up and going 'wooo!' (or varients thereof) is proof to you.

69

Final Thought About Atheism

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

final thought about atheismafter having reviewed the last thread about atheism, i have decided there.

exists a common theme among the postings.

the themes surrounding the .

Abaddon

The wanderer

If you read what I asked for in the begining you will see I have always been very clear in my requests; either I have to believe you do not understand basic English words like 'proof', are being deliberately obtuse, or think I have to prove your speculations as you are too idle to do so yourself.

The originial issue was: "Now, if top colleges
and university’s have evidence that concludes
such exists,(paranormal) that maybe enough to
support the belief that God does exist."

As top Universities and colleges DO NOT have evidence that the paranormal exists, it would seem this is NOT a way to support belief in god.

69

Final Thought About Atheism

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

final thought about atheismafter having reviewed the last thread about atheism, i have decided there.

exists a common theme among the postings.

the themes surrounding the .

Abaddon

The wanderer

All you have done is this;

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

See, I can give URL's; no smoke without a fire, eh?

http://www.fixedearth.com/

And another one!

http://www.strangemag.com/nessie.home.html

This is easy isn't it?

http://www.bfro.net/

Got the point yet?

Cutting and pasting links means nothing. One can find any variety of nutter cloaking their claims in pseudoscience and speculation. Doesn't mean they are right - but remember, a boy on a beach with a stick can PROVE the earth is curved. No one has proved the paranormal yet. Not one bit.

Good evidence would be a scientific paper, published in a reputable peer-reviewed science journal having an abstract that read something like;

"In a study of 10,000 randomly-selected people on the electoral register, 0.04% were found to be able to generate a force averaging 0.004N on electronic scale situated in a vacuum chamber in another visable to them via a CCTV link in the next room."

Or;

"In a study of 573 University students it was found five students were capable of sending a 20-digit number to one of the group of five when they were located in two separate location with no means of perceiving the other by any known sense, the number being a random sequence selected via means of double-blind protocols, all experiments being observed by panel of five independent scientists selected from the National Science bodies of G7 nations."

Personally I would find proof of coherent thought transference or telekinesis fantastically exciting. But no one has done it yet, and I won't let my liking of such a thing alter my standards of proof, or treat you like a child and pretend you have a good point when you don't. Or do you like being condescended too?

43

Gay/Lesbian Symbols

by Crumpet in

jw
friends

the whole rainbow thread piqued my curiosity.

i have often wondered how you know without speaking to someone if they are gay and you are not in a known gay place - like um brighton or the candy bar in london.. does anyone know of any other gay and lesbian symbols or signs?.

someone told me once that a ring on your pinkie was a sign - can anyone verify the truth of this?.

Abaddon

Just as there are gay men and lesbians who are promiscuous and are just interested in physical relationships, so too are there promiscuous hetereosexuals.

There are also men who want a secure loving relationship with another man, who they like having sex with, and lesbians who wants the same sort of relationship with a woman. Just like straight people who want a secure relationship with the opposite sex.

I've known gay people who have been in relationships decades long, lesbians who go through a wild phase of discovery before settling down on the opposite side of the world with their girlfriend... and straight people who've done the same WooHoo! thang and settled down with someone of the opposite sex.

The biggest mistake you can make is to think homosexuality is all about sex. It is no more all about sex than heterosexuality. Yeah, there's mad sex clubs for gay guys, lesbian pick-up bars... but as straight people have the same sort of things all it does is show that gay people are just like straight people apart from the liking people with the same naughty bits.

Just as there are straight people who talk about their sex lives (I'm sure some straight friends of yours talk about their sex lives jaguar), so too there are gay people who do that - and loads who don't.

Hell, I'm sure some people you know go home to someone of the same sex and you don't know.

The symbols thing makes me think of clothing styles. A friend of mine was refused entry to a lesbian bar once as she was wearing a pretty cotton summer dress. Apparently in some clubs, all lesbians are equal, but the ones in combats, army boots, crew-cut T-shirts with wallets on chains and short hair are more equal than others.

43

Gay/Lesbian Symbols

by Crumpet in

jw
friends

the whole rainbow thread piqued my curiosity.

i have often wondered how you know without speaking to someone if they are gay and you are not in a known gay place - like um brighton or the candy bar in london.. does anyone know of any other gay and lesbian symbols or signs?.

someone told me once that a ring on your pinkie was a sign - can anyone verify the truth of this?.

Abaddon

69

Final Thought About Atheism

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

final thought about atheismafter having reviewed the last thread about atheism, i have decided there.

exists a common theme among the postings.

the themes surrounding the .

Abaddon

Crumpet

Well, if one could prove there were non-corporeal entities, and they were subject to selection and could transfer uniquenes on to offspring, yes, they would evolve.

Also interesting is applying evolutionary biology to claimed paranormal abilities;

Attributes that have a positive value for survival increase their penetration into a population. In other words mind-reading, elephant levitators who can avoid danger by knowing about it beforehand will have lots of babies, and many of these babies will carry the same trait, until as many people can read mind, levitate elephants and see the future as can digest lactose.I

This is very much not the case. Therefore one can say that one of the following must be true;

Paranormal abilities do not exist; there is no evidence against this possibility
Paranormal abilities do exist, but are so tiny and uncontrollable they are of no survival benefit what-so-ever and only turn up on the off chance, and even then don't breed true. This is possible but doesn't explain how paranormal stuff works; we know how electricity works (simplification; pumping electrons), but we cannot point to paranormalons and show how they make tables float.
Paranormal abilities do exist and do provide a survival benefit but are a new thing (just as lactose tolerance was once a new thing) and haven't had time to develop properly in the population yet; same problem regarding explaining how it works as above.
Paranormal abilities are the result of humans being parasitised by non-corporeal entities (who hide from scientists and cameras) well; it is possible, but that's different from likely.
Paranormal abilities are the result of a divine gift and are not something related to one's genetics; I'd have to ask the fairies if this is true

69

Final Thought About Atheism

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

final thought about atheismafter having reviewed the last thread about atheism, i have decided there.

exists a common theme among the postings.

the themes surrounding the .

Abaddon

And now the fantasists have a nice little circle jerk...

Guys, it was made to sound like major Universities are ploughing major money into the paranormal. They are not. It is made to sound like there is a vast set of evidence supporting belief in the paranormal. There is not, at least not of the level of reliability that would secure a speeding ticket.

Now you mock those who've asked you to actually prove what you're talking about is more than credulous speculation.

Come on then. Where are the people levitating stuff with the power of their mind, sending messages from one mind to another mind, accurately foretelling the future or seeing things in their mind from beyond visual range?

ALL of these things are easy to prove if they exist. Your determined avoidance of this fact and the fact no one HAS proved such things speaks volumes about the etiology of belief.