Abaddon
JoinedPosts by Abaddon
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49
Couple of "Human Evolution" Questions (Seriously), If I May...
by AGuest inmay you all have peace!.
i know, i know... from body members: why is she going there, again??
but... i have what i believe are a couple/few valid questions, so i must ask that you indulge me, if you can.
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77
On Human Evolution
by TD init's a subject that comes up fairly often here (understandably) and very strong opinions are expressed.
much of the discussion seems to be counterproductive.. i'd like to propose a different approach.
we all know what each other's conclusions are (or at least we should by now).
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Abaddon
Whether Sapiens, Neanderthals and Denisovians are species or subspecies doesn't change the very good evidence pointing to them evolving from a common ancestor that was a completely different species.
Scientific names are given based on the knowledge available at the time. If we knew what we will know in 50 years then maybe Hominids back to Hidelbergensis might all be seen as sub-species. But again all as descending from another species.
And it should go without saying that members of a species can breed with immediate ancestors and descendants, no matter what classification we put them under later. And by immediate, I mean many generations. 'Interbreeding' between species happens on evolutionary time scales, otherwise you would have to insist that at some point direct offspring would not be genetically compatible with their parents.
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8
Global Warming Denier Scientist Changes His Mind
by Justitia Themis inhttp://www.good.is/post/scientist-beloved-by-climate-deniers-pulls-rug-out-from-their-argument/.
today, there was a climate science hearing in the house committee on science, space, and technology.
of the six "expert" witnesses, only three were scientists.
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Abaddon
This is how it works. A real scientist said 'nope I disagree' with a consensus, and set about proving his point, and then found that the data did support the consensus and admits it.
Great he did it using money supplied to him because he was expected to find contrary evidence by those with vested interests.
So, moshe, what is your brilliant plan for dealing with global warming if no mega volcanoes blow up in the next century. That is like a Dubbie not investing in a pension because Armagedon is soon. Areyougedonit?
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70
Isn't It Time For Darwinists To Face The Music Of Science?
by Perry inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1icjkwzeee&feature=related.
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Abaddon
Irrational belief in Creation, even when it has a short-skirt and a g-string on and is called ID, is either linked to lack of awareness and understanding of the valid scientific arguments supporting evolution, or cognitive dissonance where a person accepts science when it doesn't impact their religious worldview, but refuse when it does (so the you can use a computer and will, given eternity in the bossom of your lord eventually write Shakespeare all by yourself, but refuse to accept evolution which is just as dependent on the same rules of evidence. They do this so they can sanctify themselves by claiming they conform to god's rules better and or understand the Bible or Qu''ran better and or are members of some elect group. Minute they stop taking things literally their entire houde of cards crumples, thus the obsession with a literal Creation account.
I've not posted regularly for three years and Perry is doing exactly what he did back then. I am pretty sure that he is asking the very same questions he did three years ago, and likely will be doing so in three years.
Creating even if in their own minds the impression that there is some sort of controvesy is part of the way these people operate, as is making much of perceived faults or areas with developing knowledge, all normally from a postion of ignorance, having no real knowledge of the they discuss, and of course not being able to provide any proof of any of the beliefs they hold.
Of course if you point this out they will cry evasion, use CTRL C CTRL V more, and whine like a cat that wants feeding. Except the cat shuts up for a while when you feed it.
Perry, the minute you want to have a serious scientific debate, let me know... As you've cited if, please explain the faults with the refutations of Behe, in your own words.
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125
The Hobbit and Evolution: So What's Up With That?
by AGuest inmay you all have peace!.
hubby and i happened to catch an episode of "nova" last night.
fascinating stuff.
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Abaddon
Aguest
Dearest Abaddon... peace to you... and surely you knew what you now say you know before you ever opened "my" thread? Why, then, did you?
Ah, easy. I believe in people; I may doubt some people ever will but I have been and will be proved wrong in this assumption, in some instances.
And also, you inadvertantly mis-informed people as to professional opinion and used this to raise a question related to science in general, and perceived hypocracy.
If you had burbled on in your way about your opinion and cited facts correctly, I may have asked questioned aspects of how you arrived at this or suggest more likely interpretations; I like evolutionary biology.
If you'd said I believe in god but don't question science on the basis of religion, as discussing science from a religious view is a bit like dancing about architecture, I'd probably have given you a big sloppy kiss and said I wished more theists were like you.
But you are under the misapprehension it is about you. I know those on the margins, those who lurk or make one or two comments, are the actual ones discussion like this helps inform.
Many people coming out of the JWs still believe in JW style creationism. They may link belief in a specific creation belief to believing in god. But you don't believe in god because of science, so why attack science to defend your god?
You can have god. And science. Two for one offer.
You limit the possible power of god. If there is a god that called us into being, he set things up that way at the begining. He didn't need to go magic some monkey's like a third rate wizard, or take the still dice and moved them to the numbers he wanted. If there is a god all he needed to do to have you, me or potential yous and mes, writing this, today, is to blow on the dice before throwing them. Really, believe, but believe MORE, don't let your inability to comprehend something make you think god didn't do it that way.
Why you go on inisisting something so irrelevent to whether there is a god; like if he didn't magic monkeys, there is no god. That one thing. Is your belief in god based on THAT?
Is it just the set up to enable people obsessed with making rules about how god made us (that fly against all sense and reason) make other rules? One minute the Heavens and Earth in seven days, the next you are cutting off your son's foreskin.
Not saying I believe, but I am really disappointed by many believers lack of imagination. God = Gandalf?! Get over it.
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HOUSE - Jehovah's Witnesses lost faith when Christ didn't return in 1975!
by koolaid-man inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruospk6rnb8.
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Abaddon
OH my god!!! that is sooooooooooooooooooooo funny. And Thirteen, oh boy. The phrase 'since sliced bread' has been replaced by 'since Thirteen' in my books
I don't know why, but I have always had a thing for smart, attractive, funny, strong (yet with vulnerablity) gay (or bi) girls. It's not like you can't have all that in a straight girl, but there was a time when I'd walk into a club and end up having a really nice chat with a gay girl. Maybe I have a things for wallets on chains and spikey hair (joke directed at me, not at supposedly lesbian fashion, just in case anyone is offended).
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125
The Hobbit and Evolution: So What's Up With That?
by AGuest inmay you all have peace!.
hubby and i happened to catch an episode of "nova" last night.
fascinating stuff.
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Abaddon
"Dear Abaddon was correct (peace to you, as well!): it was not a "quote" but what I pieced together from what three commentators (a writer, anthropologist, and paleoanthropologist) said. That was irresponsible and I apologize to the board."
Thanks for having the decency to admit that.
So, now you are no longer misrepresenting things...
You will never get the real quantifiable difference between religious and scientific paradigms. Different people have tried to explain it to you different ways over the years, and have had as much success as me teaching my cat calculus.
Doesn't mean you or my cat are bad or stupid per se; cat is good at being a cat, you are good at being you. But it means I should expect to get really frustrated if I talk to my cat about calculus or you about science.
You bringing in your faith-based refusal of medical treatment getting addressed in this thread was understanable given how reprehensible it was. You can't expect such behaviour to pass without comment, no matter what the topic is.
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77
On Human Evolution
by TD init's a subject that comes up fairly often here (understandably) and very strong opinions are expressed.
much of the discussion seems to be counterproductive.. i'd like to propose a different approach.
we all know what each other's conclusions are (or at least we should by now).
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Abaddon
Dagothur
Hey, we should ask a specialist in the field of anthropology! I know, let's ask Perry!
I thought Perry was the left-most skull...
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A poem by Tim Minchin; for all the unbelievers out there
by Abaddon in"storm".
inner north london, top floor flat.
all white walls, white carpet, white cat,.
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Abaddon
"Storm"
Inner North London, top floor flat
All white walls, white carpet, white cat,
Rice Paper partitions
Modern art and ambition
The host's a physician,
Lovely bloke, has his own practice
His girlfriend's an actress
An old mate from home
And they're always great fun.
So to dinner we've come.The 5th guest is an unknown,
The hosts have just thrown
Us together for a favour
because this girl's just arrived from Australia
And has moved to North London
And she's the sister of someone
Or has some connection.As we make introductions
I'm struck by her beauty
She's irrefutably fair
With dark eyes and dark hair
But as she sits
I admit I'm a little bit wary
because I notice the tip of the wing of a fairy
Tattooed on that popular area
Just above the derrière
And when she says "I'm Sagittarien"
I confess a pigeonhole starts to form
And is immediately filled with pigeon
When she says her name is Storm.Chatter is initially bright and light hearted
But it's not long before Storm gets started:
"You can't know anything,
Knowledge is merely opinion"
She opines, over her Cabernet Sauvignon
Vis a vis
Some unhippily
Empirical comment by me"Not a good start" I think
We're only on pre-dinner drinks
And across the room, my wife
Widens her eyes
Silently begs me, Be Nice
A matrimonial warning
Not worth ignoring
So I resist the urge to ask Storm
Whether knowledge is so loose-weave
Of a morning
When deciding whether to leave
Her apartment by the front door
Or a window on the second floor.The food is delicious and Storm,
Whilst avoiding all meat
Happily sits and eats
While the good doctor, slightly pissedly
Holds court on some anachronistic aspect of medical history
When Storm suddenly she insists
"But the human body is a mystery!
Science just falls in a hole
When it tries to explain the the nature of the soul."My hostess throws me a glance
She, like my wife, knows there's a chance
That I'll be off on one of my rants
But my lips are sealed.
I just want to enjoy my meal
And although Storm is starting to get my goat
I have no intention of rocking the boat,
Although it's becoming a bit of a wrestle
Because -- like her meteorological namesake -
Storm has no such concerns for our vessel:"Pharmaceutical companies are the enemy
They promote drug dependency
At the cost of the natural remedies
That are all our bodies need
They are immoral and driven by greed.
Why take drugs
When herbs can solve it?
Why use chemicals
When homeopathic solvents
Can resolve it?
It's time we all return-to-live
With natural medical alternatives."And try as hard as I like,
A small crack appears
In my diplomacy-dike.
"By definition", I begin
"Alternative Medicine", I continue
"Has either not been proved to work,
Or been proved not to work.
You know what they call "alternative medicine"
That's been proved to work?
Medicine.""So you don't believe
In ANY Natural remedies?""On the contrary actually:
Before we came to tea,
I took a natural remedy
Derived from the bark of a willow tree
A painkiller that's virtually side-effect free
It's got a weird name,
Darling, what was it again?
Masprin?
Basprin?
Asprin!
Which I paid about a buck for
Down at my local drugstore.The debate briefly abates
As our hosts collects plates
but as they return with desserts
Storm pertly asserts,"Shakespeare said it first:
There are more things in heaven and earth
Than exist in your philosophy...
Science is just how we're trained to look at reality,
It can't explain love or spirituality.
How does science explain psychics?
Auras; the afterlife; the power of prayer?"I'm becoming aware
That I'm staring,
I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped
In the blinding headlights of vacuous crap.
Maybe it's the Hamlet she just misquothed
Or the eighth glass of wine I just quaffed
But my diplomacy dike groans
And the arsehole held back by its stones
Can be held back no more:"Look , Storm, I don't mean to bore you
But there's no such thing as an aura!
Reading Auras is like reading minds
Or star-signs or tea-leaves or meridian lines
These people aren't plying a skill,
They are either lying or mentally ill.
Same goes for those who claim to hear God's demands
And Spiritual healers who think they have magic hands.By the way,
Why is it OK
For people to pretend they can talk to the dead?
Is it not totally fucked in the head
Lying to some crying woman whose child has died
And telling her you're in touch with the other side?
That's just fundamentally sick
Do we need to clarify that there's no such thing as a psychic?
What, are we fucking 2?
Do we actually think that Horton Heard a Who?
Do we still think that Santa brings us gifts?
That Michael Jackson hasn't had facelifts?
Are we still so stunned by circus tricks
That we think that the dead would
Wanna talk to pricks
Like John Edwards?Storm to her credit despite my derision
Keeps firing off clichés with startling precision
Like a sniper using bollocks for ammunition"You're so sure of your position
But you're just closed-minded
I think you'll find
Your faith in Science and Tests
Is just as blind
As the faith of any fundamentalist""Hm that's a good point, let me think for a bit
Oh wait, my mistake, it's absolute bullshit.
Science adjusts it's beliefs based on what's observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.
If you show me
That, say, homeopathy works,
Then I will change my mind
I'll spin on a fucking dime
I'll be embarrassed as hell,
But I will run through the streets yelling
It's a miracle! Take physics and bin it!
Water has memory!
And while it's memory of a long lost drop of onion juice is Infinite
It somehow forgets all the poo it's had in it!You show me that it works and how it works
And when I've recovered from the shock
I will take a compass and carve Fancy That on the side of my cock."Everyones just staring at me now,
But I'm pretty pissed and I've dug this far down,
So I figure, in for penny, in for a pound:"Life is full of mysteries, yeah
But there are answers out there
And they won't be found
By people sitting around
Looking serious
And saying isn't life mysterious?
Let's sit here and hope
Let's call up the fucking Pope
Let's go watch Oprah
Interview Deepak ChopraIf you're going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo.
That show was so cool
because every time there's a church with a ghoul
Or a ghost in a school
They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The fucking janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide.
Throughout history
Every mystery
EVER solved has turned out to be
Not Magic.Does the idea that there might be truth
Frighten you?
Does the idea that one afternoon
On Wiki-fucking-pedia might enlighten you
Frighten you?
Does the notion that there may not be a supernatural
So blow your hippy noodle
That you would rather just stand in the fog
Of your inability to Google?Isn't this enough?
Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?
If you're so into Shakespeare
Lend me your ear:
"To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw perfume on the violet... is just fucking silly"
Or something like that.
Or what about Satchmo?!
I see trees of Green,
Red roses too,
And fine, if you wish to
Glorify Krishna and Vishnu
In a post-colonial, condescending
Bottled-up and labeled kind of way
That's ok.
But here's what gives me a hard-on:
I am a tiny, insignificant, ignorant lump of carbon.
I have one life, and it is short
And unimportant...
But thanks to recent scientific advances
I get to live twice as long as my great great great great uncles and auntses.
Twice as long to live this life of mine
Twice as long to love this wife of mine
Twice as many years of friends and wine
Of sharing curries and getting shitty
With good-looking hippies
With fairies on their spines
And butterflies on their titties.And if perchance I have offended
Think but this and all is mended:
We'd as well be 10 minutes back in time,
For all the chance you'll change your mind. -
77
On Human Evolution
by TD init's a subject that comes up fairly often here (understandably) and very strong opinions are expressed.
much of the discussion seems to be counterproductive.. i'd like to propose a different approach.
we all know what each other's conclusions are (or at least we should by now).
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Abaddon
Not being funny, but can we define human please?
Langauge (if so how complex)? Use of fire? Care for the dead? Tool making (if so how complex)? Subscribing to Readers Digest?