Posts by Abaddon

159

Logically consistent theories of ID exist.

by hooberus in

the following is one theory that comes from the id book the biotic messagehttp://www1.minn.net/~science/contents.htm by walter remine.

"an intelligent designer is necessary for the origin of life from non-life.

" the biotic message page.

Abaddon

hooberus

Are you going to respond to the fact that ReMine's book is utterly flawed as he didn't read the manual for the software?

Or will you, like him, ignore inconvenient facts? Oh... hang on... *slaps head* yes, I see a pattern now

Thing I don't get is the seeming lack of realisation by some people that their evasiveness on these threads is rather obvious to any one reading them.

It's like a politician trying to answer a question that suits their purposes, instead of the one they were asked that shows their behaviour or politics for what it is...

Is there a scripture you use to justify being evasive and failing to "let your yes be yes and your no be no"?

20

Is abortion an unforgivable sin?

by e_louise in

hi all i'm a newbie with a question:.

please ban you tell me if an unbaptized publisher has an abortion is this an unforgivable sin?.

what would happen to the publisher if another jw reports them or they confess since they are not baptized?.

Abaddon

In JW terms, no, it is not an unforgiveable sin as there is only one sin that is, as previously described.

As an unbaptised publisher, you would probably be stopped publishing if you did.

On this topic I have yet to have ANYONE show me a scripture from the Bible that mentions abortion, so anyone saying they know god's mind on this is just wanting to have you worship their opinion rather than use your own conscience.

On another topic, if you're an upbaptised publisher you should really have a read of some threads on this site before you get baptised...

135

Chemical weapons being used ... how about it America?

by Simon in

of course, as it's the murdering, war-crime-committing, un-mandate-ignoring, nuclear-non-proliferation-flouting israeli friends of america, they probably won't see it as an issue at all.. funny that ... they were dead keen on going to war over just the hint of this very thing but probably won't even condemn it.. it's about time that sanctions were imposed on israel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6075408.stm.

.

Abaddon

Isn't it funny how the right-wing nut-jobs and Islamophobes LOVE telling us how right they are...

... but fall flat on their faces when it comes to putting together evidence to support their opinions.

It's especially funny when they start cheering each other on. Congratulating someone for presenting a well-reasoned argument is one thing... vacuous approval for someone who simply states an unreasoned or supported opinion that happens to fit in with your own is just sycophancy... who let the dogs out, woof woof...

159

Logically consistent theories of ID exist.

by hooberus in

the following is one theory that comes from the id book the biotic messagehttp://www1.minn.net/~science/contents.htm by walter remine.

"an intelligent designer is necessary for the origin of life from non-life.

" the biotic message page.

Abaddon

I really despise it when this happens;

Creationist; "Oh silly modern science! See the bronze-age goat herd was right!"

Evolutionist; "Don't talk rot (then lots of facts)."

Creationist; Argues from one side of mouth complexity needs design, argues from the other the designer of complexity is subject to special laws and doesn't need a designer, although they cannot prove this.

Evolutionist; "Don't talk rot (then lots of facts)."

Creationist; ...

Yup, once again we have a thread started by a Creationist left to dangle as they can no longer make themselves look good online even in their own estimation.

Boring!!

17

Losing the Internet today...

by AuldSoul in

jw
friends

just wanted to let everyone know, until i get an isp at home again i will only be posting as often as i go to the public library to use their computers.. if anyone needs/wants to get in touch with me, i have made sure big tex has my contact information.

i trust his judgment on who to pass it along to.

you can also send me a pm here, but i am not sure how often i will be checking them.. i have deeply appreciated all the insights i have gained from discussions with you people, and i hope i have provoked some new or different thoughts as well.

Abaddon

Take care AuldSoul; you have an interesting angle on things

159

Logically consistent theories of ID exist.

by hooberus in

the following is one theory that comes from the id book the biotic messagehttp://www1.minn.net/~science/contents.htm by walter remine.

"an intelligent designer is necessary for the origin of life from non-life.

" the biotic message page.

Abaddon

Ah, hooberus... I won't bother asking you for your promised rebuttal of dendrochronolgy which (unless you can rebutt it) proves quite catagorically that the Flood was not global, and thus proves your key presupposition (the accuracy and literal nature of the Bible) is false.

You will simply make one of a variety of excuses, normally trying to blame me for your inability to rebutt critical evidence against your beliefs.

Having said that let us see what aspect of evolutionary science you're tilting at today; although you have no compettive theory and cannot even defend the hypothesis you do have, it doesn't stop your continual attack on one type of scientist (whilst benefiting from all the other types of scientist)...

Oh... you can't be bothered to argue your point but instead refer us to a book; are you incapable of putting the argument in your own words, lazy, or just trolling creationist-ID claptrap with no genine interest in a discussion?

Well, I'll be just a lazy; ReMine didn't understand how the software he was using worked and limited the population size to 6. There's more faults, here's some URL's;

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/sep99.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB121.html

Don't bother quoting ReMines rebuttal; he ignores the error he made regaring the software and does not even respond to it being pointed out in criticism. Is your failure to respond to criticism of your beliefs based upon trying to emulate such a person? Maybe he figures he'll stop selling those books if he admits they are fataly flawed... funny how unprofessional behaviour and profit so often feature (as I have pointed out in previous discussion with you) in the lives of those people you choose to support to defend your beliefs.

As for your attempt to make this a discussion about logical consistency;

"An intelligent designer is necessary for the origin of life from non-life." The Biotic Message page. 40

Are you serious? You need to prove the statement before anything else. Just like you need to rebutt dendrochronology's refutation of Biblical accuracy before going on with your slavish devotion to Creationistic opinion.

You also have to prove your own statement;

It should be noted that the above theory deals specifically with life that has an origin from non-life, and thus there is nothing in the above that would also exclude the existence of an eternally existing designer (which of course would have no origin from non-life).

There is a difference between TYPING STUFF and making a decent argument.

I know you will grab at whatever straws you can in shoring up your belief sturcture but don't you think you need to address the faults in your belief structure that are pointed out to you in EVERY thread you come up with Creationist-ID claims?

At the very most you are phrasing the watchmaker argument in a way that suits you, and of course the wachmaker argument refutes itself, as does ID.

If complex things need designers, and designers are complex, designers need designers reducio ad absurdio...

But this has all been pointed out to your already...

Doesn't it strike you as strange your beliefs can only sound vaugely sensible if you ignore sound refutations or create very narrow hypothetical statements that unravel the minute someone looks at them?

135

Chemical weapons being used ... how about it America?

by Simon in

of course, as it's the murdering, war-crime-committing, un-mandate-ignoring, nuclear-non-proliferation-flouting israeli friends of america, they probably won't see it as an issue at all.. funny that ... they were dead keen on going to war over just the hint of this very thing but probably won't even condemn it.. it's about time that sanctions were imposed on israel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6075408.stm.

.

Abaddon

Ross

I've never heard of anyone receiving a chemical burn without chemicals being present

So you're saying that a chemical which is intended to directly cause harm (either deliberately or inevitably) to a living being is a weapon, a chemical weapon?

Golly, who would have thought it?

(note I put in 'directly'; technicaly speaking bullets are CPR's; chemically propelled rounds. Pedant, me?

What sort? a male schoolteacher or one who makes a show of knowledge or one who is unimaginative or one who unduly emphasizes minutiae in the presentation or use of knowledge or a formalist or precisionist in teaching?

Do I have to get a permit from the UN to poison ants? I'm confused...

16

Melaleuca anyone?

by buffalosrfree in

jw
friends

i have recently been the recipient of a 30 plus minute presentation via phone of the melaleuca home based business opportunity.

what i would like to know is there anyone who uses the board that has any experience with them.

they are based out of idaho falls, idaho and before i even contemplate getting involved i intend to do some heavy researching all you comments to this effect would be greatly appreciated.

Abaddon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melaleuca_%28company%29

Maybe not as bad as Amway but does that make it a good idea?

Logic and maths can show that all such organisation have high turn-over rates. Some people try it and do well and get knock-on comission for their Bible-studies, er, conversions, er, whatever. Most make little or no money - but make money for those further up the chain.

This is an unspoken part of the business model; part of the profit it relies upon to make some people money is in picking-up people for a short period who work for others profit at no return for themselves.

I've seen people invovled with similar companies ending up with a garage full of stuff they can't shift.

I'd check the references of the Wiki carefully before deciding. We all know from experience how easy it is for a competent well-prepared speaker to make a sack-of-shit smell sweet when speaking to an audience who really want it to be true.

That is the kicker; your motives. If this is a genuine business opportunity, fine. If this is a get-rich sceheme then, if it is so easy, how come so few people ARE rich? If you really want an easy option, this will influence your judgement of an apparent easy option; it's like guys find women they KNOW want to sleep with them more attractive than a girl of the same appeal who DOESN'T want to sleep with them. That which we desire that seems easy oft seems sweater than the boring work-get paid model.

All the best!

135

Chemical weapons being used ... how about it America?

by Simon in

of course, as it's the murdering, war-crime-committing, un-mandate-ignoring, nuclear-non-proliferation-flouting israeli friends of america, they probably won't see it as an issue at all.. funny that ... they were dead keen on going to war over just the hint of this very thing but probably won't even condemn it.. it's about time that sanctions were imposed on israel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6075408.stm.

.

Abaddon

The BBC is pretty good, but in the past five years or so I really find the only way to get an overview is use multiple news sources from multiple countries.

That is not to say I think the BBC are biased against Israel. For a start, the attitude toward Israel would not differ if Israel was Christian, Islamic or animist.

There IS a sympathy toward the Palestinians. They are a dispossessed people subjected to the sort of land confiscation, relocation and ethnic cleansing that Native Americans could identify with. They are facing a country that despite its small size has one of the top-ten most lethal military forces in the world. They are victims of massive Western double standards. They are used a a pawn in a power-play by their co-religionist neighbours just as much Israel is seen as a important strategic ally (i.e. a pawn with teeth).

But the paramilitaries only make it worst for themselves, and are as savage to Palestinians that they get pissed with as to Israelis. Just as in many Arabic counties, they squeal when their rights are violated by the Israelis but don't make nearly the fuss they should at human rights violation by their co-religionists - but in the socially-politically backward Arabic world this is common (where were all these European-resident Muslims so pained by the deaths of Iraqis when the Iraqis were being killed by a despot??).

But if you waved a magic wand and changed the religions of the the protagonists and nothing else, things would carry on just as before.

Pay too much attention to religion in this and you might not notice the wood is comprised of dis-similar trees.

A far clearer picture of some of the problems of reaching a stable territorial situation is gained by examining water rights in the area; try "water Israel Palestine" (without quotes) as a search string if you want to know more.

I went to school with an Iranian boy who, at 14, had seen service as a military irregular. My home city had regular terrorist attacks for several decades (nothing like Israel though... ). And I can understand why someone seeing such dreadful things should be so firm in their opinions. I can ALSO understand how many Palestinians who have committed no crime yet suffered destruction, death (not their own obviously), and economic malt-down due to Israel being equally firm in their opinion.

At one point I thought a good solution was to ship the Palestinians to Northern Island and the Unionists to Palestine. I've also considered (for obvious reasons facetiously) that making the Palestinians and the Israelis swap their children could be effective. Old Gaddafi's idea of merging the two countries is fun too.

But a multiplicity of nations basically giving Israel a clear deadline to reach an acceptable (to the majority of Palestinians yet retaining future viability of both countries) settlement.

I've also thought about writing a book where some people get so pissed off they nuke (with ample warning) Jerusalem as a cursory lesson to religious nut-jobs the world over. Maybe they get carried away and throw start going down a list comprising Salt Lake City, Brooklyn, Rome, Amritsar and Banares.

The old Dubbies would piss themselves with delight; "See! Religion is being destroyed!!"

But then it isn't about religion, not really.

135

Chemical weapons being used ... how about it America?

by Simon in

of course, as it's the murdering, war-crime-committing, un-mandate-ignoring, nuclear-non-proliferation-flouting israeli friends of america, they probably won't see it as an issue at all.. funny that ... they were dead keen on going to war over just the hint of this very thing but probably won't even condemn it.. it's about time that sanctions were imposed on israel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6075408.stm.

.

Abaddon

czar

There was a time, perhaps, when the rantings and personal attacks would have gotten to me.

But now you're too busy ranting and attacking entire religions for the crimes of a minority to let anything like other people's disgust at your attitude to make you pause and actually think about what you say. Of course, lampooning someone who makes continuous errors when presenting facts in their argument is VERY bad. I will send myself to bed without dinner.

Not so much anymore. If you want to know what I do, Abaddon, ye need only move your patchouli-scented mouse over to my name and click on "topic history." I think if you peer through the incense smoke and the purple haze clouding your mind you'll be able to work it out. (The dancing occurred even on the day AFTER 9/11, btw.)

So, you make sweeping generalsiations, prophecies of genocide (hampered somewhat by your ignorance of the English language), show your opinion is based on inaccurate knowledge about Muslims and France, further show your tendancy to hysteria by confusing two real and tragic issues in your attempt to wail from your soapbox, and round it off by becoming an apologetic for the use of WP on civilians.

And all you can do is make a comment along the lines of;

"well, I can't actually rebutt the thrust of your argument Abaddon, as I was making sweeping generalisations and silly errors of fact regarding Muslims and France, but despite the facts I base my opinions on being shown to be false I am sticking with my opinion and to try to make it seem you like the problem I'll mention you smoke pot as (in what passes for my mind) this means I don't have to answer for the faults in my argument".

Wow, IMPRESSIVE!

I do not view the average Muslim as an innocent bystander either.

The average Muslim is as peaceful and innocent as the average Christian. Yet you'll line them up against the wall for the crimes of others.

I have extremely limited pity for them and their suffering.

That's okay; I pity you.

I've learned a new philosophy, "If you kick my dog I will kill your mother."

Ah, words of Wisdom. I knew a guy like you... he was about SO high (holds fingers under nose) and lived over there (points East with an outstreached arm and downward faced palm at a 45 degree angle).

Of course, you're not a Nazi... just like Islamic Fundies aren't Nazi. But the 'force is right/tolerance is a dream/innocents can die for the cause/revenge is good/certain groups are undesirable due to their religion or ethnicity (not due to any crime on their part)' philosophy is obviously one that Nazism, Fundamental Islam, and the worst of right-wing vapouring such as you exemplify have in common.

That's the tragedy; people like YOU play into the hands of the worst of the Islamic Fundies. Rather than rasing your game you reduce yourself to their level.

How many filmmakers are going to be murdered for speaking their mind? Nobody killed Michael Moore, but the Left only shrugged when that poor Danish guy got whacked.

Czar, again you are wrong. You are now confusing two European countries (instead of the clothing codes of two religions). But please, keep maiing posts. Each post shows in greater deal how little you know about a subject you feel qualified enough in to prophecy a race-war.

Ooh, let's get on JWD and drunkenly speak our minds - that'll show them!

Enough about you and your drunken rant Czar...you weren't drunk? Then that means you've even LESS of an excuse...

Or when those journalists got kidnapped and forcibly converted to Islam in Gaza.

The under-age girl allegedly raped by US troops who then killed her and her family?

Or the Muslim atrocities in Darfur.

That the Christians sit and watch whilst wringing their hands?

Stop thinking in sound-bites man! Look at the bigger picture.

Do you think someone who is enfranchised and capable of supporting theirselves and a family, who is treated equal to those around them, and who feels secure from untoward atacks by their own or other governments jumps out of bed one day and says "I know what I'll do, I'll blow myself up on a bus!!"?

Add in the backwards nature of the cultures many Muslims come from (in terms of their socio-political development) to the high-handed, incompetent, interfering, two-faced and biased handling of those same cultures by the West and you have a recepie for disaster.

If our great-grand parents were subjected to the same behaviour by advanced Muslim super-powers as Muslims (of the same cultural level as our great-grand parents) have been subjected to by advanced 'Christian' super-powers, the situation would be the same.

Except it would be (for example) Palestinian Christians who blew themselves up to protest the unlimited reign a Jewish state is allowed by a Islamic superpower in ethnicly cleansing a country.

Rather than for ONE MOMENT think that we are reaping a whirlwind largely of our own divising you assume the fault lies totally with the Muslims.

But then I doubt (given you are yet to show us any knowledge about this subject) you actually know how the West has crapped down the throat of the Arab Muslim world (in particular) for strategic and economic convenience. If you don't know the extent this has hapened to (which I doubt), then you would see the Muslims as the bad guys in the uninformed and simplistic fashion you do.

I believe that many who feel elements of the Muslim world have unfairly targetted the West suffer from a similar lack of historical perspective. If anyone feels this is an unfair statement, I can always set a pop-quiz, LOL.

Oh, please feel free to make straw man arguments saying I justify the actions of terrorists. I don't. But if that's the best you can do, hell, it keeps you off the streets...

Perhaps you are right - we are not trying to avoid the strictest definition of "genocide" but I have yet to see a term created to represent an all-out assault on a religion.

Crusade?

The term "genocide" was applied in Bosnia, so I used it here.

Because in BOSNIA it was a SINGLE ethnic group who happened to be Muslims that were being killed.

"Religio-cide" would be more to your liking? Or "Ideo-cide?" or "Islamo-cide?"

Coin words to describe your nightmare/dream scenario as you wish. Any smart comments on the fact you obviously know naff all about Muslims (or France), yet on the basis of this 'accumilated' knowledge will condemn an entire religion and prophecy its doom? Hell, Nazi's were doing that about Jews before WWII. Can't you see what your opinions and actions align you with?

And of course I know you're reading this...