A days or so ago, never a jw posted a question about the translation of Matthew 11:12. That set me off thinking as a result of which I've posted some notes on my blog:
http://cromptonsmule.blogspot.com
Thanks, Nev, for raising the question!
RobCrompton
JoinedPosts by RobCrompton
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Matthew 11:12
by RobCrompton ina days or so ago, never a jw posted a question about the translation of matthew 11:12. that set me off thinking as a result of which i've posted some notes on my blog:.
http://cromptonsmule.blogspot.com.
thanks, nev, for raising the question!.
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Blood sausage
by stillin inwhile visiting our neighbors across the pond, i visited a butcher store to rustle up something for supper.
that was the first time i had ever seen blood sausage.
we just never see it over here in the states.. when a witness leaves the organization over there, do they all eat blood sausage once again?
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RobCrompton
Lois, yes black pudding is fairly popular but you probably wouldn't get that full traditional breakfast in most homes, except perhaps at weekends as a special treat. If you stay in an English hotel and ask for a full English breakfast, that's what you will get. No need for a biglunch that day! Sunflower oil is usually used for frying though lard was used when I was a kid.
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Blood sausage
by stillin inwhile visiting our neighbors across the pond, i visited a butcher store to rustle up something for supper.
that was the first time i had ever seen blood sausage.
we just never see it over here in the states.. when a witness leaves the organization over there, do they all eat blood sausage once again?
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RobCrompton
Black pudding (I don't think anyone ever actually calls it blood sausage) is served traditionally with an English breakfast - eggs, bacon, pork sausage, tomatoes, baked beans, black pudding and fried bread. It can be quite nice if it's properly fried and it's very peppery. Don't much like the texture, though, and the thought of the ingredients puts me off - nothing to do with biblical strictures. I would usually ask for extra beans instead.
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Anyone knows why Matthew 11:12 is translated so differently in NWT
by never a jw innew world translation version ii:.
"from the days of john the baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it".
new international version:.
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RobCrompton
It appears that the version you quoted from is the 2011 edtion. I'm not sure why the translators decided to go with this very different rendering in the new edition, which doesn't seem to me to fit with the idea of "from the days of John the Baptist..." Now if it had been "from the days of John Hyrcanus..." that would be different - Hyrcanus being the Maccabean leader who established the Hasmonean dynasty. That is, the kings following the restoration of the monarchy were not legitimate heirs of the Davidic dynasty.
Now you've set me off wondering whether there might have been an earlier, very different saying underlying what has come to us in Matthew 11:12 because the 2011 rendering would seem to reflect the attitude that the leaders of Judaism at the time of Jesus were illegitimate and due to give way to Messiah, the rightful king.
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Anyone knows why Matthew 11:12 is translated so differently in NWT
by never a jw innew world translation version ii:.
"from the days of john the baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it".
new international version:.
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RobCrompton
Interesting one. I can see that there could be some justification for using quotes around "Samuel" on the grouds that what is seen is a ghost, a disembodied spirit, or an apparition.
To the ancient mind, though, the ghost or whatever is genuinely Samuel himself, whereas to the JW reader it has to be a demon in the shape of Samuel. So the quotes which the NWT use nudge the JW reader towards an interpretation of the story which would not have been in the mind of the writer. Hmmm, this could open up a long discussion about how narratives convey meaning, and convey different meanings in different contexts and cultures.
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Anyone knows why Matthew 11:12 is translated so differently in NWT
by never a jw innew world translation version ii:.
"from the days of john the baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it".
new international version:.
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RobCrompton
Which edition of NIV are you using? Mine (1985 study edition) has "... kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing and forceful men lay hold of it."
Zerwickand Grosvenor's "Grammatical Analysis of the Greek NT" (a must-have for wannabe translators) gives this note on the verse: "Biazomai... use force, force one's way... suffer violence, here as in (Luke 16:16) it isdisputed whether this force is to be understood as hostile or praiseworthy."
This is one of those instances where the translator has to make a judgement about the likely intended meaning. So I don't think the NWT can be criticised for their rendering. Other translations give the same sense to the verse.
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ex-jw-uk
by bigmac ini'm quite new to this site, & have realised some members have a union jack symbol under their avatar.
i don't.. could we have a "show of hands" from any uk members?
i've already found several by reading older posts..
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RobCrompton
Stretford, Salford, Clydebank, Stretford - all way back in the 60s
Recently moved from Cardiff to Leominster, Herefordshire.
Coffee, anyone?
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The epitome of narcissism
by Separation of Powers inthere are several disturbing things that were said in the latest annual meeting.
one of the most disturbing was a comment made by david splane.
he made reference to how the clergy "howled" when the first new world bible translation committee produced the first nwt.
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RobCrompton
Before the NWT Committee could even begin work on their own version, a truly massive amount of scholarship had gone into the compiling of the master texts from the mind-bogglingly huge number of mss and fragments. The NWT is utterly dependent upon this textual scholarship. Any committee of translators ought to recognise their indebtedness to this scholarship and ought to be in a position to demonstrate that their own expertise is worthy of the task they have taken upon themselves. If they insist upon concealing their identity and their credentials they have no right to be taken seriously.
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Jehovah in the New Testament (New NWT bible )
by jhine ini have just seen in the flesh , or paper , the new nwt .
my witness friends were delighted with it showing me all the new features like the glossary of terms and explanations of the hows and whys .
i did ask about actual content , acting daft not letting on that i knew anything about it .
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RobCrompton
Try this free download:
www.smashwords.com/books/view/170997
It's a fairly comprehensvie study of the issues involved
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Six extra Jehovahs!
by slimboyfat inthe old nwt used the name jehovah 7207 times and the new nwt uses it 7213 times.. has anyone worked out where the extra jehovahs appear in the text?
who wants to play where's wally, i mean where's jehovah?
however there's an even bigger jump in jesuses: 940 up from 918.. satan is exactly the same at 54..
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RobCrompton
Are you sure that your search looked only at the text and not also at footnotes etc?
If there really are differences within the text itself that would be very interesting.
(This isn't actually my first post here as some of you will realise - had difficulties logging on which wouldn't resolve so I re-registered)