I do not think WT will die out during anyone life's poster on JWN. As other had said, it is religious group not centered on work and ideology of one person. It survived Rutherford, and it will survive anyone else. It will transform to fit it purpose and niche in world where people are gullible for trading their present well being for promise in paradise that will arrive shortly. I will see a change how this organization is run from Knorr's business model of 1950's to modern IT age religious influence. This will happen once the boomer and older generation in the leadership dies out and a younger crowd that is influenced in IT media will take a lead.
Posts by kaik
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61The Watchtower Org will die.
by Freeandclear ini was just reading through some posts and had a startling realization.. the comment that sparked this went something like this: why oh why when i started into this in 1989 did i not research the history of the wtbts?
etc....... i too was studying and moving towards baptism around that same time.
i got dunked in dec of 1990.. my thought.
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So , how "worldly" did you get?
by greenhornet ini even hate to use that word worldly tm.. any way i'm probably the worst.. 1 when the jw s come to my door i say i'm not interested .
2 i have gone to many churches and volunteered.. 3 i shredded all my jw books and magazines out in the woods.. 4 had the mormon elders over and studied with them.. 5 tried pot (its legal here).
6 open carry my fire arm every where (legal here also).
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kaik
I hate that term worldly. It is when I became a normal citizen without WT indoctrination.
- Voted every elections
- Support military
- Support gay marriage
- Raised a flagpole for my American flag
- Got university education
- Married a person outside "truth"
- Read various religious books not affiliated with JW
- Saving money for retirement, because I know Armageddon is nowhere on sight
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Does the WT attract needy dysfunctional type of people?
by William Penwell inin your personal experience, do you think that the wt attracts needy types of people?
over the years, my experience is that they do attract very needy, insecure, dysfunctional, types.
i had an acquaintance that i just basically cut off.
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kaik
What I know my JW aunt became one of them in the 50's when the communist repression was the hardest. She came from bourgeois family which pretty much undesirable social class. Women like her were sent as a forced labor in factory where she met JWs and offered her bible studies. She became one.
My parents were deeply anticommunist and antisoviet, and WT offered a hope in era when people lost hope after brutal suppression of the Prague Spring. 1960's was decade of relative freedom and prosperity in Czechoslovakia, people could travel abroad, censorship was abolished, living standard improved that my parents had house, car, summer cottage; and they did not have to be associated with the communist party. In that decade, communists did not care about loyalty as long nobody crossed their business. This changed with invasion and subsequent occupation of the country in 1968. My dad was supportive of the changes in the 1960's and this was the end for his career. My mom did not like any communist, even the reformed liberal ones like Dubcek, so she was not purged of her job. My JW relatives offered a vision of new world when Jesus will arrive and will destroy Soviets in 1975. Soviets shoot at my dad in 1968, and the revenge from mighty God in couple year later looked sweet to him. But my dad never had enough time to dedicate to full bible study with them and this dragged on, but eventually only my mom got baptized for the 1975 hype. I met a lot of men in my KH who were like my dad, and due political changes they find WT teaching interesting. In 1968-1972 there was huge spike of suicide because people feel hopeless. It was oppressive era especially in comparison to freedom people enjoyed in the 1960's.
WT prey on misery of the others. If WT would say my parents in 1969 that Armageddon will be 40 years later, they would not have joined. However, 1975 was just couple years away...
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Does the WT attract needy dysfunctional type of people?
by William Penwell inin your personal experience, do you think that the wt attracts needy types of people?
over the years, my experience is that they do attract very needy, insecure, dysfunctional, types.
i had an acquaintance that i just basically cut off.
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kaik
I disagree because it will vary from country to country and from decade to decade. I knew people who joined WT under Stalin era. They were political prisoners, not religiously affiliated, but they were extremely fascinated the bravery many JWs stood up to Stalinist's regime. It was something heroic and many people were inspired. JWs were not the only one, but were among persecuted group of people to whom many people could give their sympathy. Also consider living in society where traditional churches like Catholic and Orthodox were compliant or passive to the ruling elite. WT seems to be a modern religion without pope, physical opulent churches and cathedrals, and some people loved it. They did not realized they were joining a cult that will destroy their life. -
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I had a bizarre dream the other night
by Freeandclear inquick recap.
i'm 44, been df'd about a 10 months.
got baptized when i was 18, in and out of the borg for years due to guilt.
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kaik
Many times dreams reflect your subconsciousness. When my dad was diagnosed with cancer, I dreamt several times about his funeral before he died. These dreams were very vivid and detailed and I remember them 20 years later. In my mind I already knew that he was dying but I could not acknowledge it. Dreams can reflect a lot what is on your mind, the state of your mental and physical health, and issues you face in the life. I do have several repeating dreams since childhood with some variations. I never dream about grandparents from my father side; however, I have constant dreams of my mother's parents and their house surrounded by vineyards. I also dream about house I lived as child or current my mom's house, but not about any other place. -
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WT should admit that 1914
by bobld inwas a man made date when jesus came and that a generation is not 102 plus years.. why not say something like this.when the disciples asked jesus for a sign and the end of the age.jesus gave them a composite sign and said all these things will take place.when-before the people now living(at the end of the age which no one knows)have all died..
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kaik
The issue with 1914 is that it cant be just scrapped without destroying a large part of WT theology. It is crucial to remember that Jesus arrived and checked Christianity for fruit and find it among pack of prisoners charged in sedation in 1918. And than there was a heavenly wedding in 1919 and WT became a bride of Jesus. Plus everyone in WT that died until 1935 were part of the 144K. -
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When Did Higher Education Become Taboo?
by Wild_Thing ini have been reading about the early history of russelites/jws and in the beginning, it seems the organization was formed and headed by quite a few educated people.
lawyers, doctors, businessman.
you could buy voting rights within the organization for $1000, which by today's standard would be somewhere between $15,000 and $20,000, something most of us do not have on hand, unless you are highly educated and/or wealthy.
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kaik
Austria-Hungary lifted the ban on university education for women for medical field first and they were restricted to nursing, pediatrics, dermatology area and others. Woman could not be a surgeon until 1918 after Austria-Hungary disintegrated. First science field where women could defend their thesis was actually a field of chemistry and lab was a first place for them to be employed in otherwise all men club. It is hard to believe that 100 years ago, women could not study and use their talent, intelligence, and desire in any educated field. Big thanks to all these long gone ladies who made it possible.
I am very upset that my sister listened advice and never pursued college education. She knows pays with difficult labor market and unstable income. My niece is/was studying business school, and my stupid JW cousin, telling her to quit and spent a time to preach. When I was in Prague last summer, I told her that she needs to finish her school as foremost goal, and worry about everything else later.
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When Did Higher Education Become Taboo?
by Wild_Thing ini have been reading about the early history of russelites/jws and in the beginning, it seems the organization was formed and headed by quite a few educated people.
lawyers, doctors, businessman.
you could buy voting rights within the organization for $1000, which by today's standard would be somewhere between $15,000 and $20,000, something most of us do not have on hand, unless you are highly educated and/or wealthy.
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kaik
My grandparents wanted my father to go to medical school (1940s). My grandfather had a degree, which was unusual back then
Very true. My grandfather came from lawyer family who held various position in the county offices, so they had money to sent their sons to university. My grandfather had college education prior the Great Depression, but got PhD after the war. Otherwise there were no college loans and grants; education was cash only. Women had high literacy rate in Austria-Hungary but a few attended school after their 16th birthday. My grandmother went to all girl boarding school and lyceum in the 1920's and she was among a few women to had chance to do so in her time and place. People do not realize that how lucky they are now, when they attend college.
WT had not considered college education threat until much later times. There was just handful of educated people to cause a problem to WT ideology. Today education is much more widespread, but also the length of the education increases. Master's degree takes two years after four year degree. PhD and postdoctoral degrees can take even 5 years after Master's. Obviously WT does not want people to get degree when they should be spending time preaching instead doing dissertation research.
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When Did Higher Education Become Taboo?
by Wild_Thing ini have been reading about the early history of russelites/jws and in the beginning, it seems the organization was formed and headed by quite a few educated people.
lawyers, doctors, businessman.
you could buy voting rights within the organization for $1000, which by today's standard would be somewhere between $15,000 and $20,000, something most of us do not have on hand, unless you are highly educated and/or wealthy.
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kaik
Women in Europe did not get college education until middle of the 20th century. The college education was oriented toward men. In Austria-Hungary the ban on college education for women was lifted in 1892 and it was for a medical field only. Next fields that opened for women education was philosophy and pharmacology just when the Great War started. This changed with emancipation of women after 1945 and especially in the 1960's. This was first decade when college education became a norm in workplace in Eastern Block. I am not sure exactly when the speaking against college education started, but my cousin had a chance to study engineering field in mid 1970's and elders talked to him from it. I remember my dad felt that he was making a bad decision. So they had to speak out against around the time. I remember these talks from the 1980's onward.
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Decluttering Swedish Watchtower books
by applehippie ini've been doing a lot of deep de-cluttering and came across some watchtower books i had stashed away and forgotten about.
they belonged to my grandmother and came to me through my father's estate.
just wondering if they would be useful to anyone.. sanningen som leder till evigt liv - truth book '69.
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kaik
Just donate them to university library. My mom has all these WT bounded and I recommended to get to donate it.