From my old KH, I think pretty much everyone has already died, DA, DF, faded away, or became irregular. I remember my aunt who was JW since the time of Stalin assurred that we will never age, etc. She died around 2000. Her kids, my cousins are between 50-60, who believed that they will never die. Some of them are combating cancer, etc. I still remember hearing her words that Armageddon is just couple months away in 1970's. She died beliving that she will be resurrected very shortly.. 14 years later, she is still a dust.
Posts by kaik
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42The END did NOT come in their lifetime!!
by DATA-DOG ini don't know about the rest of you, but i have seen my fair share of death.
both sets of grandparents, aunts and uncles, older jws that were pillars in the community.
i even knew the first missionary in missouri, a brother named gerald golf.
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443
The 1914 generation is still going strong 100 years later - 2014 study article.
by THE GLADIATOR injanuary 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
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kaik
To Bobcat, Fisherman, and others
The Olivet prophecy did not really fullfilled at 70AD. Look into that Mat 24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
This cannot apply to insurgency of Judea against Roman Empire. On one side you have largest empire of the antiquity, versus rebellious province that was under Roman administration for almost century. There was no war of one kingdom against other, nor nation (diverse multinational and multicultural Roman Empire) versus Jews. 2-3 milion Jews lived outside Judea and had not whatsoever participated in insurrection of II Jewish war in 66-70AD. In that time only the prophecy could fullfill if Persia and Roman empire would fight over Judea. This was not the case, and actually under Nero, Persia had an excellent relationship with Rome and considered him as ally and gave him a control over Armenia.
Luke 21:20,21 fullfil only this portion of the Oliver discourse:
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
However, further down in verse 27:
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
has not been fullfilled and does not matches with events of 70A.D. nor 1914. Mark 13:26 is trailing along the same ideas.
Either way, Jesus talked to his disciples and was pointing out to the event that woud most likely happen within their lifetime. It was his primary audience. Majority of the Jews were not even aware of his prophecy, as again, majority of them lived outside of Judea for last several hundreds years.
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443
The 1914 generation is still going strong 100 years later - 2014 study article.
by THE GLADIATOR injanuary 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
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kaik
TD I want to thank you for the excellent input you had provided here.
Did Jehovah allow the ingathering of this group to begin too soon? Did Jehovah make a mistake? Or is the parallel with the first fulfillment simply falling apart because of human error in interpretation? What do you think?
Likely is that there is a human error in interpretation when it comes to prophecies that extended beyond the life of Jesus and the first apostles.
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Can a JW be accused of apostasy for just quoting scriptures?
by Island Man infor example, let's say an awake jw wanted to share ttatt about the true meaning of john 10:16, so he just posts on his facebook wall a couple passages of scripture with no commentary whatsoever - like this:.
"in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.
- matthew 15:24.
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kaik
I heard about it in the past that people were DFs for questioning teaching for they felt was unbiblical and they were accused of apostasy. Couple years back I read about former JW that dared to bring a Bible to committee that questioned his faith and was forbidden to use it for his defense. He was DF's righ there. When I lived under communist regime, we actually had read bible. We had only one copy of illegally obtained WT and we could only depend on bible for understanding the text. After the fall of communism, the bible was barely used in KH. Occationally was opened to cite a text, but much emphasis was done on the WT publication and Awake. This became the authority and people were told that they lacked direct contact with Jehovah to understand the Scriptures. Only the Slave understand the light that would be distributed to us.
I had not been in KH for almost 20 years, but I have bunch of aged relatives who are still active. Last summer I went to visit them and they had WT all over. When I from curiosity opened them, I noticed that the quality of the "Food" went down in 20 years, half of the texts did not make any sense, but also the emphasis on Biblical verses were limited. I also notices that my very elderly relatives had either forgotten or nor were familiar with common biblical themes like the Samaritan woman by the well. It was very strange.
I am not suprises that people would be DFs if they use Bible when they feel the publications are in direct contradiction with it. WT spent more time on proselyting people, how to preach and approach invididuals, and less time is spent on understanding the Scriptures. You have to read a book, go to school, than sitting in assembly to listen some nonsense that you are not prepared for, and than study WT; so very little time is done into research. If anyone studies Scriptures extensively, will understand that WT teaching is man-made often with invented theology like 1914.
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JW's now believe in The Rapture
by Oubliette injw's now believe in the rapture.
notice this curious doctrinal change in the controversial july 15th, 2013 watchtower: .
one of the events mentioned in these verses is the gathering of the chosen ones.
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kaik
I agree with a watcher on this. I remember from KH that the anointed will have to die first, and they will turn into spiritual being. Body in flesh cannot enter spiritual kingdom. Our KH also taught as that anointed will see their funeral, the tranformation is immediate as person passes from the human form to heavenly. I do not remember ever hearing Rapture. I encountered this teaching only in USA among various extreme denomination. Almost all major Christian denominations (Catholic, Orthodox, European Protestants) consider Rapture a heretical teaching. I have not seen in any WT publication teaching a Rapture along the way as is understand by eveangelical groups in USA.
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The End 2000 Years Ago Part 2
by maccauk11 insign 2. the beginning of birth pangs will be; false messiahs, wars famine,earthquakes, terrors and signs from heaven.
ad 40-46 a scorceror in samaria called the great power of god acts8:9-11. ad 46-48 false prophet and magician bar jesus acts 13: 6-10. ad 50 false brothers among them.
ad57 many disguised themselves as apostles of christ.
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kaik
You should know that 1st century with some exception was rather century of relative prosperity and peace. It was actually the most prosperous century for entire history of the Roman Empire. The 1st century BC was a major crisis for the Roman world as it was experiencing social crisis that ended Roman Republic and paved a way for Imperium. Augustus consolidated the Roman Empire and provided check of balances that were known as Pax Romana. Some places in Roman empire experienced unprecedented prosperity and population exploded from 50 milion to 85 milions by 100 AD. Peace between Persian and Roman empire ensured stability in Levant. There were some political crisis like during Calligula, or Nero that followed the year of Four Emperors. There was uprising in Judea and Britain, but for Roman world, these were unimportant provinces of the vast empire. The largest and most important province for Rome was Egypt.
Earthquakes happens all the time, so did famines. Roman empire had experienced all of them through its entire existence. The largest earthquakes happened in the 4th century AD that was accompanied by tsunamy. However, this was not unusual. Explosion of volcano of Thera in 1600 BC was probably the most devastating eruption in the past 4000 years and much stronger than eruption of Krakatoa. If anything, Roman Empire experienced significant crisis after the murder of the emperor Caracalla, which paved the system toward barracks emperors and quick succession of various military leaders who destroyed the economic base in the empire. It is hard to point that 1st century was anything extraordinary for human race in empire that survived for another 500 years.
During the 1st century there were not known epidemics. However, 150 years after the death of Jesus, came major epidemics known as Antonious plague that even claimed the life of one the best emperor, Marcus Aurelisu. 100 year later, another plague of Cyprian devastated Roman Empire again, killing millions. Anything apocalyptic from John does not indicate any major crisis for the Roman world in 1st. century.
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443
The 1914 generation is still going strong 100 years later - 2014 study article.
by THE GLADIATOR injanuary 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
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kaik
I agree with Finkelstein that this threat shows how unbiblical and man made is the 1914 year as is proclaimed by WTS. 1914 date under deep analysis with Scriptures fails on Acts 1:9-11, Matthew 24:27, Luke 17:20-37, etc. It was until 1920's, when WTS moved the parousia from 1874 to 1914. It built entire theology on that year. Nowhere The Scriptures match with a teaching propagated by obscure religious group in country that past 200 years produced various doom cults. For its own convenience, the unverified return became invisible, but only apparent to them [WTS].
WTS claims that parousia started in October of 1914, yet WWI was already in full 3 months in progress and had several major battles. WTS continues to claim that we are at the Great Tribulation (lasting for 100 Years) with Armageddon just beyond the corner. I remember around 1980 some JW even thought that Armageddon will be in 1989 (1919+70), as the generation of 1914 was getting 100 year old. 25 years later, we are still here!
Either WTS would continue maintain 1914 (which I doubt it will but not until 10-20-30 years later), or come up with new doom day, which would again create a sense of urgency to preach and distribute new literature.
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The Great Harlot was 1st century Jerusalem
by maccauk11 inshe became the great harlot or revelation by the latter part of the 1st century.
the messiah warned them what would happen to them .
they had become drunk with pride and riding on the back of pagan nations.thereis no other harlot to come.
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kaik
No, it is not. Jerusalem in the 1st century A.D. was a small, sleepy outpost that was not even a seat of the Roman's provincial administration. Throughout the year, it was patroled by 50 or so Roman soldiers, whose number reached about 500 during the Passover as the number of pilgrims increased the population. Once the Passover was over, the Roman administration recalled its troops. Jerusalem was outside major Roman routes, it was not even the largest Jewish city in the known world. It had about 30,000 people, while Alexandria was world's metropolis with 500,000 people from which 1/3 were Jewish. Rome had about 1 million people. Athens, Corinth, Aquilea, Antioch, Ephesus, Syracuse had 250,000 people Jerusualem was not control of anything, it was not even a capital of independent country since 6th century BC. Therefore, to conclude that Jerusalem was the Harlot having reign over nations does not matches. Even for Jews at that time it was a distant ancestral capital; they prefered to leave were was business and commerce as did any other nationalies of the vast Roman Empire.
The identification of Jerusalem with Harlot is nothing new. I read it decade ago and it comes back with a regular intervals among frindge Christianity. Although I do not conclude that the Harlot is Rome. John wrote his Revalation some years after Jerusalem was devasted and ruined, but still inhabited.
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Believing It All EXCEPT...
by Ding ini used to think that loyal jws bought into the wt teachings 100%.. that's certainly what the gb wants and expects and demands.. but then i encountered some jws who believe it all except for the opposition to higher education.. they think the gb is wrong about that, so all of the children are college educated.. others seem to believe it all but quietly celebrate family birthdays and various holidays.. these aren't people who are fading; they just ignore a few wt teachings that they don't like (despite the risks of being disciplined).. have you seen similar examples of active jws who are doing all the wt-approved stuff except for specific areas where they just ignore what the gb says is required?.
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kaik
Billy,
I do not think that Brooklyn cares much what are regional diversity around the globe. Everyone must wear the same suit and that is the order or you will not be allowed to go to assembly!
Last time I was with JW in my native country was about 20 years ago. It was a time when JW peaked following the collapse of the communist block and everything seemed great. But JW organization was no more the same I grew up in the 70's and 80's. Almost everywhere in that region, they are losing members, the assemblies had thinned and they are declining in numbers due biological clock. The closures of branches in Czech Republic or Estonia reflects that. I believe Slovakia, and Hungary branch will be closed down and as the membership shrunk to the level of the 1980's. The cane manage entire region just from the Germany. It is still only couple hours of drive everywhere from it.
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Why did you leave the Jehovah's Witness faith?
by God_Delusion inhi guys & gals!.
i've put together a poll on jwb that asks the simple question - why did you leave the jehovah's witnesses?.
i would really appreciate it if you could take part.
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kaik
The straw that broke my back was a lack of love and care in the time of need. The answer was that "we are busy preaching the word of God". They never cared about anyone, every single member of the congregation. If I would die, they would not care a bit.