Posts by TTATTelder

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Society stating they have no special Holy Spirit

by cognac in

i remember them stating something to that affect.

does anybody know where this was said?.

TTATTelder

I love the whole "we aren't inspired" "we aren't infallible" bit. (False humility.)

But you guys are "Jehovah's channel of communication on earth today"?

What's the damn difference? I guess the uneducated rank and file don't recognize when sombody is playing semantics.

Well I guess you won't mind if I questioned a few of your uninspired, possibly mistaken, not-infallible teachings at the next congregation meeting?

Also let me remind the GB what a channel of communication is. It is a direct messenger. Claiming to be GOD's channel is to say you are passing messages from God to us. How could you not be infallible? Are you saying God's messages are not infallible? That sounds like dangerous ground. Are you saying that you muddy the channel? Also dangerous ground. Do you add to and/or take away from the messages? Are you saying that the channel, like old tv sets, sometimes tunes in and sometimes doesn't? Sounds like you need to admit you are not what you claim to be.

Also a "body of truth" doesn't have to be refined. It is freaking true already, otherwise it's not a "body of truth" at all, it's a mixed bag of truth and falsehood. So if you are constantly refining a mixed bag of truth and falsehood, then why should anybody listen to you?

I can come up with my own mixed bag and I won't fool myself or anybody else into thinking God is speaking through me.

Just like you expect your followers to be 100% loyal to you, I expect my channel of communication from God to be 100% correct. That's kind of how it works.

63

The " HIGHER EDUCATION" thread!!!

by DATA-DOG in

jw
friends

alright.

let's have the ultimate discussion on "higher education.

" let's talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly.

TTATTelder

All of the good points that are being made here about living simple, not getting sucked into an education sales pitch, living a life of balance, etc - is not what gets typically taught in the org when it comes to education.

Those points are great (and can be found and made much better by authors outside the organization). The WT points are this:

you don't need any of "their " worldly education, we educate you better here, slave for the organization .....er....uhhh....I mean Jehovah, pioneering is the only career god approves of, etc

Throw in a few "are you doing enough for God" guilt trips and a couple of "we don't want to see you get destroyed" fear tactics - and you've got some serious control games and/or a nice little watchtower lesson (same thing).

I personally think it's a "keep them barefoot and pregnant" scenario. IMO, they don't want the r&f to ever find anything better or to ever learn to think for themselves. They also hope to convince people to work for the organization for no pay (full time service).

Remember - they don't want any original thought. They don't allow it. Education produces thinkers.

They may even convince themselves that keeping people down is in their spiritual best interests. Either way that is exactly what they are doing - intentionally keeping people down. The truth is, it makes the r&f easier to control and weild power over.

It is sick and abusive.

33

DEC 2013 WT Article - Slave for Jehovah - warning: ranting ahead

by ohnightdivine in

jw
friends

this morning's wt study almost made me vomit, stand up, pick up my bag and rush to the door.. of course it never happened.

instead, i was able to make some nice drawings on my tablet and notepad.. if you replace the name jehovah with watchtower, or the governing 8 men, it would really make sense.. what's up with all that nonstop guilt-mongering about education and having a decent job?!.

most people look down on the uneducated, and i remember, when i didn't have a job, nobody cared!.

TTATTelder

Yeah jgnat everybody knows it is ineffective and complete busy-work bull crap.

I bet the GB wishes secretly that they could somehow convert the field ministry to a tract only work (they have already starting using tracts as the official offer several months out of the year).

It would save millions for their coffers. But they can't stop the magazine streak they have. Too many stats to brag about. LOL.

32

Raised On the Third Day?

by TTATTelder in

i have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.

now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.

as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.

TTATTelder

Yeah I have to say the universal sovereignty thing is big too. If Jehovah is boss, then why wouldn't he just take care of business. And then what's up with all the pent-up anger that he lets loose throughout the OT.

I swear the more I think about all this the more holes I see.

I guess that is why they inforce such a strict policy of zero tolerance when it comes to questioning anything. It's an enormous can of worms.

28

Major flub in Slavery Watchtower Study Article

by scotoma in

jw
friends

do you ever wonder if the watchtower writers actually read the context of their key scriptures?.

they seem intent on perpetuating the idea that the jewish law was divine - perfect.. paragraph two asks the question "what would prompt an israelite slave to forfeit his opportunity.

to be free?".

TTATTelder

Wow the last line really pissed me off.

32

Raised On the Third Day?

by TTATTelder in

i have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.

now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.

as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.

TTATTelder

According to my calculations if a human thousand years is like one day to God,

then 3 human days is like 0.7 seconds to God.

good grief

32

Raised On the Third Day?

by TTATTelder in

i have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.

now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.

as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.

TTATTelder

I have some potentially controversial questions.

I have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but I would immediately dismiss them. Now I am giving myself permission to explore them further...

A lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of Jesus and God when Jesus laid down his life. As the story goes, Jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.

Consider this. Normally, when a parent loses a child, the parent doesn't get the child back 3 days later.

I'm not minimizing the weight of having to watch your child die, but isn't the biggest sting of death the permanance of it? I mean would we be nearly as distraught after a loved one died if we were going to see them again before the end of the week?

We had a talk today at our hall, and the speaker said, "Jehovah takes forgiveness seriously... he gave up his son for it."

My first thought was: but he has his son. He didn't give up his son permanently. He wasn't without him even for a week.

Everyone knew the resurrection was coming 3 days later. It was prophesied. Jehovah knew. Jesus knew. I'm assuming everyone in heaven knew. My point is - everyone knew this whole thing was temporary going in.

I get the balance of justice equation - one perfect man died for good cancled out one perfect man that died for bad. That balances the scales.

It just seems like more of a formality if the whole thing (the sacrifice/death) was reversed 3 days later.

Here are my questions:

Does the fact that Jesus was raised up on the third day water down the whole "sacrifice" part of the story for you?

Am I the only one that has thought this?

9

Hello New World: JW.org prepares for the Long Haul In the Old World

by steve2 in

the prominently displayed text in the home page on jw.org is (predictably) matthew 24:14. but you do not have to be too keen-eyed to see something pivotal missing from the shortened verse.

it omits perhaps the most important part of the verse (well, important for an end-times religion).. this is how it reads on jw.org: "this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth.".

this is how it reads in the bible (nwt): "this good news of the kingdgom will be preached in all the inhabited earth and then the end will come.".

TTATTelder

Yeah Steve2, you see them pulling back to a cruising altitude. I wondered if after the sale of the NY properties and the hundreds of millions coming in, if they would back off the pushing for money and free labor. Well they certainly have not. Multiple letters have been issued and read to the congregations asking for money and volunteers. This tells you they intend on sitting on that pile, making interest off of it, investing it, and so forth.

Interesting also that they are closing branches all over the world at the peak of their wealth. Very telling. I don't buy the "we don't need them now because we don't print as much literature" bit either. If they were focused on growth and expansion of the preaching work with the end of the system of things in sight, they would be full steam ahead. They would be using the branch offices for training and teaching and preparing for growth. Not happening.

They are consolidating and liquidating assets for a long cozy winter.

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