TTATTelder

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Posts by TTATTelder

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  27

  144000 Literal or Figurative?

  by why144000 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the speaker at the memorial tonight stated straight up that the 144,000 is a literal number as we will stop celebrating the memorial when jesus 'arrives' and takes the few remnant with him.

  how can the society change the 144,000 to figurative without blowing themselves out of the water?.

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  TTATTelder

  It really is sad. These people WANT to believe something. Anything.... to not have to face the scary world out there.

  They will swallow whatever the GB serves up. It's an emotional thing not a rational one.
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  52

  New Donation arrangement (tithe) Asked my Elder about it he hung up on me

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  new donation arrangement (tithe) asked my elder about it he hung up on me.

  .

  http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/governing-body-instructs-congregations-to-pledge-fixed-monthly-donations.

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  TTATTelder

  AndDontCallMeShirley,

  Watch and see after the letter is read how many JWs interpret the WT's statement to mean that 13,000 KHs are needed annually, so they must donate like mad fools to meet the demand.

  Exactly. They always use the tricky inflated numbers to sell with. The r&f will walk away thinking 13000 khs are needed right now.

  I'm sure the holy spirit guided this tricky language and manipulation.

  It's turning into a full fledge ponzi scheme, the only difference is they never actually pay dividends to any contributors. All that comes in the future!
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  324

  Is this new donation arrangement for real?

  by nugget in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

  congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

  congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

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  TTATTelder

  If there is no lack of money - then the only other explanation is greed/running their business (not religion) more profitably.

  Either way they aren't "waiting on jehovah" to get them more cash.

  Russell had more faith than these guys....and ...gasp....he wasn't even part of the FDS!
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  14

  The True Nature of Shunning

  by done4good in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i have been out for 8+ years, my recent experiences with this have taught me quite a bit.

  i believe most here would claim this is what mind controlled people do when they are in contact with a known "former" believer, so i think some deeper understnding of what is really going on is in order.. i always asked why is the "mind control" so effective and how do the organizations that intiate it, learn how to?

  i never really could find a satisfactory answer.

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  TTATTelder

  I once met and stayed in the home as a guest of a brother who was a retired lawyer (litigation) and had served at bethel for three years doing legal work voluntarily.

  He had very interesting things to say, but boy do I wish I could have asked more. That was like 20 years ago or more. I was too naive then to know any better.

  We went in service together the following day and he said that the field ministry wasn't for the householders - it was for the witnesses. That statement never really clicked until recently.

  There is no telling what i could have learned from that man. He is probably dead now.
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  29

  Creative ways of counting field service time

  by 4thgen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there was a sister in my congregation that signed up to aux pioneer one month to put in 60 hours.

  we couldn't figure out why she was never at the arrangements, but yet she said she got in her time early in the month.

  we found out later that we wrote a letter that took her an hour.

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  TTATTelder

  How about doing some grocery shopping and leaving a tract here and there as you go.

  Benches by the door.

  Seats by the pharmacy.

  An occasional stray buggy...lol
• 
  324

  Is this new donation arrangement for real?

  by nugget in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

  congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

  congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

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  TTATTelder

  Basically its been big business selling "the end".

  That product isn't selling anymore (as far as bringing in people), but they have a flock already that is socially and emotionally dependent on the organization that "need" a place to worship.

  Why not try to monetize that more with a devised income stream of pledged payments from each publisher. In other words, if you want us to keep babysitting you, telling you what to think, what to do with your life, and spanking you when you're bad then you are going to have to pay $$$ for it.

  Congs with paid for halls will be reminded that it isn't "their" hall. So pony up your lease/franchise fee.

  This is obviously to bring in more money. They will sell it as "better for the friends."

  There will never be an accounting of the funds made publicly available.

  The GB will siphon off/set aside whatever millions they see fit to comfortably provide for themselves for decades regardless of the ultimate fate of the org.
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  324

  Is this new donation arrangement for real?

  by nugget in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

  congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

  congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

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  TTATTelder

  good one searcher...
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  324

  Is this new donation arrangement for real?

  by nugget in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

  congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

  congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

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• 

  TTATTelder

  Undercover,

  I agree with what you are saying... I will add this though... The anonymous survey (guilt-tripped obligation) is already reality or will be shortly in thousands of congregations.

  Add this...There are already ways to make donations through JW.org either one time or recurring. These donations are made with credit/debit card so obviously include name/address etc.

  I again agree it it quite a leap from where we are to - tax return auditing - but you can see the road the org is creeping down.

  You have to wonder what the next step down this road is, and where it will end up.

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  Maybe future surveys are not anonymous? Maybe future donating is not anonymous?

  Digital donating is already in place online and at conventions. Surely it will pop up at the hall at some point. The anonymity of donating is already fading.

  Could we see digital-only donating at some point? They could say that it is safer to not have the brothers handling cash.

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  Just speculating, but its not hard to imagine a day when the elders know exactly who donated and how much and whether it matches their "pledge".

  Back-Door Tithing is on the horizon...
• 
  324

  Is this new donation arrangement for real?

  by nugget in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

  congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

  congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

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  TTATTelder

  They are just devising a way to amass more funds.

  They are guilt tripping the congs with paid for halls to give more And simultaneously trying to convince congs with saved cash to hand it over.

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  Sorry... "Give me the money now and I promise to take care of you later" is the oldest scam in the book.

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  I talked to another elder about this and he actually defended it. His cong is planning a 50k plus remodel and he said " "hey we won't have to borrow the

  money and we might get a 100k remodel instead and just pay them what we a can afford."

  I was a bit taken aback by the entitlement nanny-state mentality that automatically kicked in. (But I am in the US lol )

  Its totally a franchise/rental-landlord hybrid business model being rolled out progressively.

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  I wonder how long the remodel/repair request list will get and how quick. It will be funny to watch.

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  Its kind of weird though. They act like such a conservative religion and then want to raise taxes and play Robin Hood like the libs.
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  8

  FINE-TUNING our thinking by clarifying our VOCABULARY of conscience

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are you confused?.

  is your thinking and reasoning ineffective because of ambiguity?.

  do you sometimes find yourself unclear about what certain words mean?.

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  TTATTelder

  Good Post...thanks for expanding my thinking today