Posts by TTATTelder

24

Thought I would introduce myself

by WateredDown in

jw
friends

i have read the site with great interest over the last few weeks.

some interesting stuff thats for sure.. i have left the jehovah's witnesses (was almost going to say the 'truth') for some time now.

i was one of the lucky ones that was baptised then faded, no humiliating disfellowshipping but nonetheless was very hard to get myself out.

JW's Don't Really Believe Satan is Real ...

by TTATTelder in

if you walked up to any jw and said "i just spoke to satan" they would think you lost your mind.

while that reaction makes perfect sense in the real world, in wt land it doesn't add up.

here's why i say this -jw's are supposed to believe the following:.

TTATTelder

boc,

They seem to believe in a concept called "Satan" - the illusive "Boogeyman", the easy scapegoat to blame for everything evil or undesirable.

It seems they don't actually believe in Satan the person. Otherwise hearing his voice would not be a sign of mental problems in their community. To me this is a super simple "rubber meets the road" topic. It's one thing to say you believe in Satan and blame him for everything, but quite another to have a conversation with him - or at least believe a conversation would be possible.

I think it exposes the lack of true depth in their faith and the "doublethink" that is so prevalent in the religion.

-TE

22

JW's Don't Really Believe Satan is Real ...

by TTATTelder in

if you walked up to any jw and said "i just spoke to satan" they would think you lost your mind.

while that reaction makes perfect sense in the real world, in wt land it doesn't add up.

here's why i say this -jw's are supposed to believe the following:.

TTATTelder

A very strange situation - people believing two completely opposite realities - Simon

It is always fun to turn left and right at the same time mentally. Very healthy. (sarcasm)

Is it any wonder that JW's have zero critical thinking abilities? They are convinced (or should I say conned) into shutting these parts of their brain off. They must do this to trudge through the belief system.

-TE

22

JW's Don't Really Believe Satan is Real ...

by TTATTelder in

if you walked up to any jw and said "i just spoke to satan" they would think you lost your mind.

while that reaction makes perfect sense in the real world, in wt land it doesn't add up.

here's why i say this -jw's are supposed to believe the following:.

TTATTelder

If you walked up to any JW and said "I just spoke to Satan" they would think you lost your mind. While that reaction makes perfect sense in the real world, in WT land it doesn't add up. Here's why I say this -JW's are supposed to believe the following:

Satan is real
Satan is currently alive
Satan is trapped on earth
Satan is controlling the whole "world"
Satan had a conversation with Eve
Satan had a conversation with Jesus

If JW's actually believed all the above 6 points, wouldn't they expect a conversation to be possible with Satan today? I'm telling you, if you walked up to a Circuit Overseer and said that you just spoke to Satan and you were concerned about something Satan said - that dude would freak out! It would spread quickly that you were not mentally stable.

I find this inconsistency interesting and telling. What do you think?

-TE

18

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses do this?

by runForever in

jw
friends

why do jehovah's witnesses as individual members readily think that apostates are having a sweeping mass delusion?

if some jw's have known you for a long time do they really think you based everything on some random delusion you randomly had instead of confirming the information?.

it's quite retarded even the bible itself is contradicting them in jeremiah about the 70 years.. i know some know, and some choose not to know but what about the rest?.

TTATTelder

I actually now think that the WT has vilified apostates beyond even Ole Satan himself. I also believe the term apostate is more feared than the term Satan.

Think about this for a second... If you got the thought-stopping question of "Where did you hear that?" or "Are you visiting apostate sites?", ....imagine if you said "No I was talking to Satan and he told me... And since Jesus gave Satan a reply, I wanted to do the same."

that would be a great recorded meeting with elders...lol

-TE

14

Phases of Mental Extraction

by freemindfade in

in only the short time i have been no longer lurking but also posting, i have discovered some people with situations and reactions very similar to mine.

i guess there are different ways people get out, some do something and are outright shunned, then they may find ttatt and stay out.

but there may be more and more like me, who are 100% mentally out, but for the reason of not losing spouse and family fade.

TTATTelder

I have experienced what you explain in the OP pretty much exactly as described.

I would say the #5 Detox phase is when the stages of grief kick in..

-TE

28

A Mind at War

by cappytan in

right now, i feel like my mind is at war with itself.. on the one side is reason, logic.. on the other is tradition, hope and fear.. reason and logic are challenging life-long beliefs.

they are telling me, "is this any more believable than the story of the lord of the rings?".

certain doctrines of my belief system are crumbling.. my mind still wants to hold on to the belief in a creator, his son jesus and the bible.

TTATTelder

I understand that having children adds to the anxiety, but it doesn't change the point I was trying to make.

Armageddon isn't coming... No Devil is after you.....So take your time and make a level-headed plan for you and your family. Assuming lives aren't in immediate danger, It is never a good idea to make a rash or overly emotional decision.

(there can be many variables to consider - immediate family, extended family, friends, employment concerns, business partnerships, pending inheritances, no social network to replace the JW community etc etc)

Thinking things through is good advice in any situation, but I think even more so if you are dealing with the effects of having your worldview crumble before you. There is emotional "dust-settling" to allow time for.

-Good luck to everybody dealing with this mess. It sucks. I hope for the day when WT leaders are prosecuted for the scumbags they are.

-TE

28

A Mind at War

by cappytan in

right now, i feel like my mind is at war with itself.. on the one side is reason, logic.. on the other is tradition, hope and fear.. reason and logic are challenging life-long beliefs.

they are telling me, "is this any more believable than the story of the lord of the rings?".

certain doctrines of my belief system are crumbling.. my mind still wants to hold on to the belief in a creator, his son jesus and the bible.

TTATTelder

cappytan,

I stumbled on a bit of ttatt back in spring 2012. I had gotten fed up with some of the things I had seen and continued to see in the congregations, so I watched a few youtube videos and such. I only went so far at that time. I felt a little better about my grievances - almost like I had gotten some frustration out. So I pulled back.

The unraveling had begun, though. I chose to swallow it down, cover it up with the standard party-line excuses, and push forward. It didn't take long before I was running into more congregation frustration around the summer of 2013. I again turned to the internet to get my frustrations out. This time I went all the way. I read almost the entire JWfacts.com site and COC etc. Well, I will never be the same.

I am telling you this to say - I am not sure it is as much a "choice" as you may think. The truth will burn inside you. You can't un-know what you know. A sane person doesn't typically choose delusion over reality. You can try to turn away from it and stay in the "warm bed" of the familiar. You can pull the covers over your head to avoid the feelings of fear, betrayal, and the unknown...but this isn't going to solve the problem long-term (although it might be helpful short-term :)) The truth is still waiting on you once your nap is over.

But with that said...Taking your time and allowing your anxiety to cool down is a good start. Like someone said to me in the beginning...time is on your side. Time is not running out like JW's teach. You have plenty of time to sort this stuff out and create a level-headed plan of action.

I will add this. When I was first coming to grips with it, I had a problem letting go of the thought of "having it all figured out". I also felt compelled to replace the JW belief system with another. I guess it's just what we're used to. Well what helped me was realizing this next statement and repeating it to myself many times:

"I don't have all the answers.........but ..........neither do they"

"I don't have the answers.....but......the governing body doesn't either."

I also remember thinking and even said to my wife multiple times back then, "I don't have all the answers, but I also don't pretend I do. And I sure as hell don't demand people believe what I believe with the threat of taking away their family and friends or being killed by God."

I cringe at the thought of saying so much to my wife so early. I am more careful now. It was just boiling inside me then.

Because of the effects of indoctrination, It will take a long time for all of this new info to really sink in. If it takes a while to simply sink in, it certainly will take a while for you to evaluate life's big questions. So be patient with yourself. Let the process breathe. The big questions aren't going anywhere. Time is on your side and we are all in this same boat.

-TE

20

Q-tips and Coffee Filters helped me learn TTATT

by RedPillPopper in

jw
friends

well they didn't fully teach me ttatt but helped me on the way.............. first thing i do in the morning after waking up is grinding some nice coffee beans and getting the brew started while i take a hot shower.

after the shower i like to clean out all the nasty wax out of my ears with a q-tip (or cotton swab for those not familiar with that term).. while cleaning out my ears i would think about how nice it is we have things like q-tips and coffee filters that make life more enjoyable but at the same time realize that somebody somewhere is in a factory making these.. i can't imagine a child saying "when i grow up i want to work in a factory making coffee filters".

the people who end up really doing that as adults did not set that to be a life goal.

TTATTelder

If they consider life without modern conveniences paradise, then why don't they just join forces with the Amish?

Oh...they must not own enough real estate.

-TE

18

Propaganda vs Bible study

by Clambake in

is it just me or is the wts increasingly just becoming more about watchtower propaganda.

every week it seems to be about killing your children over blood transfusions or worshipping the magical men in brooklyn or the loving provision of shunning or the magical power of the elders or some brother in far off land who is in jail because he cant stop handling out magazines he doesnt understand to people who dont want them.

try and get a jw to explain the gospels or the book of the romans and what was significant about the book of acts...........................no clue.

TTATTelder

The bible is the bait in their bait and switch...
Their app sorts search results for scriptures by frequency of use, so the inconvenient scriptures that they don't use end up all the way at the bottom. The best thing, though, is their clever use of .epub literature and pushing tablets for study. Now JWs don't bother to look up scriptures in context, they just tap the link to the scripture and it brings up the cited scripture and no more. Now that it's easier to read just the cited scriptures, JWs will be less likely to get curious and read the context. - oneeyedjoe

Strong points.

They have shortened, just this month, the only two parts left in their meeting program that featured the Bible exclusively. The No. 1 Bible Reading assignment has been shortened and the Bible Highlights part has just a 2 minute section for the brother to comment on the weekly bible reading. The brother is even instructed to only cover One point in the 2 minutes.

Just a bit controlling wouldn't you say?

What good, sound, real, "Christian" reason could there possibly be for shortening these parts? If the BIble is the "Word of God" why are they minimizing discussion of it?

I think we all know the answer...

-TE