Posts by lambsbottom

10

How Would You Respond? - "The Jewish nation veered from God, just like the WT".

by lambsbottom in

how would you respond to:.

the wt is much like the jewish nation.

they have veered from true & just practices, just like the jews sometimes did.

lambsbottom

good reply, DOC. im just playing devils advocate because someone said that to me once.

10

How Would You Respond? - "The Jewish nation veered from God, just like the WT".

by lambsbottom in

how would you respond to:.

the wt is much like the jewish nation.

they have veered from true & just practices, just like the jews sometimes did.

The WT is much like the Jewish nation. They have veered from true & just practices, just like the Jews sometimes did. But it is still the truth, just like Jehovah kept using the Jews for so long and then corrected the matter.

BTW, interesting note here at http://www.livingwaters.cl/books/friends/chapter08.htm :

The importance of being in the synagogue

In Jesus' times, the synagogue was the center of the religious life and the Jewish social life. To be expelled from it was to become marginalized, an outcast. For that reason the Jews feared being expelled from it. The formerly blind man's parents, in spite of the joy that they felt when seeing their healthy son, didn't dare be exposed to being thrown out of the synagogue by giving a favorable testimony about Jesus.

The parents didn't want to jeopardize themselves, despite having strong reasons for doing so.

The same thing happened to others who were secret followers of Jesus. Joseph of Arimathea "was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews." (John 19:38). So too was Nicodemus. (John 3:1-2; 7:50-52; 19:39-42) And many others: "Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear that they would be put out of the Synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God." (John 12:42-43).

The man's parents hardly had great honor, because they were the parents of a beggar, but even so, they didn't want to lose what little that they had. Joseph of Arimathea, Nicodemus and the rulers on the other hand did possess a great deal of honor. Is it not therefore strange that the parents didn't want to lose their honor? They didn't admit openly that Jesus was the Christ -although they believed it in their hearts - in order to avoid being thrown out of the synagogue.

For them, being in the synagogue meant having both God and men on their side. For that reason, it didn't suit them to be thrown out for any reason.

Yet to continue in the synagogue after believing in Jesus caused problems of the conscience. They surely didn't have peace, because they could not defend Jesus when others spoke badly of him.

They don't appear in the book of Acts (although perhaps they were with the Christians). They perhaps didn't have the wonderful privilege of following him, because they loved the praise of men more than the glory of God.

12

When elders became the disfellowshippers instead of the entire congregation.

by tim hooper in

i'm trying to find the wt instructions for this procedure.

extensive googling brings up watchtower 1944 may 15 p.151 as the reference.

anyone able to look up the reference?

lambsbottom

Not sure of the timeline.

However, I can say for sure that:

Any removal from the congregation was likely done with the consensus and within the view of the entire congregation. Definitely not behind a closed door with no witnesses allowed. Furthermore, let us remember that Paul was an Apostle and directly commissioned by Jesus Christ. So, even if Ananias & Sapphira were judged by the Apostles and not the congregation, it is because they were directly commissioned by Jesus. Are the Elders, COs, or GB judging with the same authority of the Apostles?

Remember, the Apostles all DIED, leaving the NT as God's last final authority on spiritual matters. If the GB is going to say they are the same as the first century GB, they will eventually have to say they are equivalent to Apostles. I mean heck, can you imagine the first century GB writing a second letter, after Acts 15, and saying "Well, we changed our mind because the light became clearer regarding blood. But, don't worry, we are still spirit directed". LOL.

It took me a while to understand all this.

The JWs have made a complete 180. From the time of Russell, where the Catholic & Orthodox church was used as what not to do, to today, where the similarities are striking. Very sad. Catholics have one man deciding everything (claiming Apostolic succession), while the JWs have 7 men deciding everything and pretty much claiming Apostolic succession.

2

Appointment of Elders/Deacons

by lambsbottom in

so i attended a bible student's meeting yesterday where they were discussing scriptures to prepare for their annual business meeting.

at that meeting, they come to a consensus for any elders, deacons, etc.

that particular group requires 80% of the group to be in agreement on any particular issue.. anyway, i was doing some research on the appointment of elders in the first century congregation (according to the bible).

lambsbottom

Lets not forget that, under the whole "We are God's channel", God is an easy target for resentments and anger. Why?

Well, under the famous "Feelings of Having Suffered Neednessly" article by the WT, the blame for changed doctrine (even when one may have suffered by blindly obeying it in the past - e.g. - blood fractions), is placed on Jehovah. JWs are told that it his arrangement, and therefore, suck it up and fall in line.

When I was trying to wake up my wife, I told her about changed medical doctrine and even she said "Well, maybe Jehovah was testing those people, to see if they would obey".

I wonder what Jehovah thinks about this? Imagine a babysitter telling your son/daughter to do something in your name, that hurts them. Then, that babysitter says your child doesn't have to follow that order anymore. When the son/daughter asks "But why did it change"? That babysitter says "It was your parents will! Even though they didn't tell me directly, they left me in charge, so keep doing exactly what I say"!

This must hurt Jehovah so much! At least with each congregation deciding who is in charge, when something goes wrong, it is the congregation who made the bad choice and not Jehovah!

2

Appointment of Elders/Deacons

by lambsbottom in

so i attended a bible student's meeting yesterday where they were discussing scriptures to prepare for their annual business meeting.

at that meeting, they come to a consensus for any elders, deacons, etc.

that particular group requires 80% of the group to be in agreement on any particular issue.. anyway, i was doing some research on the appointment of elders in the first century congregation (according to the bible).

lambsbottom

Hi y'all,

So I attended a Bible Student's meeting yesterday where they were discussing scriptures to prepare for their annual business meeting. At that meeting, they come to a consensus for any Elders, Deacons, etc. That particular group requires 80% of the group to be in agreement on any particular issue.

Anyway, I was doing some research on the appointment of Elders in the first century congregation (according to the Bible). It does seem possible that Paul (or someone directly under his direction) may have appointed Elders through Holy Spirit, possibly after the congregation gave their recommendation for those individuals. However, the question to a modern JW would be: Do these scriptures show that congregations should only have Elders appointed via the "organization".

Here is where it gets awfully sticky for the GB. If they are going to state that the "organization" must approve of any Elders who are appointed, they would have to be admitting having the same type of authority as Paul or other Apostles. Lets say Christ did want traveling brothers, under the direction of Apostles, to appoint Elders in each congregation. Well, one limitation to that would be that the traveling brother would have to take under consideration the consensus of the congregation anyway. He couldn't just walk off the street and appoint who would appear to be the most spiritually qualified. He would rely on the congregation members, likely gathering them altogether and asking for a consensus or any objections. When Paul and Barnabas were appointing Elders (Acts 14:23) in brand new congregations, it doesn't seem that there were existing Elders already that they would simply take a vote from for appointment of new Elders.

So, there are two possibilities. One is that the Apostle Paul was asking for a general consensus on certain brothers and then making the final judgement (which means HE was appointing them and had the final say). The other option was that he was directing the congregation on HOW to choose from amongst themselves proper Elders. In this sense, he was going around and appointing Elders, meaning he was overseeing the process, but not telling them what to do.

If the Apostle Paul had the final say, or just came in and let the Holy Spirit help him direct Elders, and the congregational consensus was not needed, this puts the GB in a quandry. They would truly be making themselves "Apostles". Today, they send out COs to review the consensus for appointment/deletion of Elders (Titus 1:5?) and the buck stops with the CO (having been sent ultimately by the GB). Therefore, the GB is ultimately considering themselves Apostles!

Many reformed Christians believe that a high council (Jerusalem council) is no longer necessary, since there are no Apostles left. They believe the Epistles were the final say in how the congregations should be formed and managed.

In conclusion, it seems that the GB might as well come out and say that they are Apostles. This would only make sense. They can't have the best of both worlds, by saying 1) The Bible is the final authority and we are just men taking the lead. 2) But, we are to be viewed with the exact authority of Paul and the other Apostles.

So, which is it, GB?

12

High Ranking Scientology Members Go Crazy

by lambsbottom in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg70fhg0wl4.

.

lambsbottom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG70fhg0wL4

10

Watchtower Library CDROM That Goes Back The Furthest?

by lambsbottom in

hi y'all,.

.

can anyone give me the download for the wtcdrom that goes back the furthest (i think i heard it was 1993)?.

lambsbottom

I have the 2012 & 2013 original discs. Will be keeping those forever.

10

Watchtower Library CDROM That Goes Back The Furthest?

by lambsbottom in

hi y'all,.

.

can anyone give me the download for the wtcdrom that goes back the furthest (i think i heard it was 1993)?.

lambsbottom

Hi y'all,

Can anyone give me the download for the WTCDROM that goes back the furthest (I think I heard it was 1993)?

Thanks

5

Studies in the Scriptures

by lambsbottom in

i know some of you are going to roll your eyes, but i have been reading the divine plan of ages.

here is my question:.

will someone please give me a timeline of what russell (bible students) thought would happen, when it would happen?.

lambsbottom

I know some of you are going to roll your eyes, but I have been reading The Divine Plan of Ages. Here is my question:

Will someone please give me a timeline of what Russell (Bible Students) thought would happen, when it would happen?

For example:

Christ's presence (parousia) 1874 - start of millenial reign? Sits down on glorious throne (Matthew 25:31)? Versus coming in "Father's glory".

Great tribulation ?

Babylong the Great killed by nations ?

Christ's coming (erchomai) ?

Armageddon 1914 ?

When Jesus binds & throws Satan into abyss ?

When annointed are actually resurrected to heavenly life ?

Thanks so much in advance!

11

I Think I Caught A Lie!

by lambsbottom in

*** w13 7/15 p. 7 par.

15 tell us, when will these things be?

and in his parable of the sheep and the goats, jesus states: the son of man arrives in his glory.

lambsbottom

snare&racket:

Amen!

Watching Tony Morris balk about how the branch that didnt treat him good better to concerned about his big brother (with the arrogrant & haughty facial expressions and gestures) is proof positive of who we are dealing with!

Come out of her my people!