Whoa thanks guys - I'm slightly overwhelmed by the sheer amount of information & help! It'll take me a while to get through all this in my spare time but I can't wait to get stuck in.
MightierThanTheSword
JoinedPosts by MightierThanTheSword
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13
Flogging the Vat 4956 horse
by MightierThanTheSword ini'm just curious about something & wonder if the experts could help.. basically i am documenting all of the main lines of evidence for the jws being the one & then investigating each claim systematically.. i have now reached the dreaded november 1st, 2011 watchtower & am sitting in front of a copy of cartes du ciel and a babylonian calendar converter i found at http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/babylon/babycal_converter.htm.
i realise these claims have been challenged and documented in depth elsewhere, but i'm keen to do my own research rather than copy & paste.
my question is regarding date conversion - when inputting the gregorian dates as given at the bottom of the tablet's translation i found at http://www.caeno.org/pdf/f019_translation.pdf then the lunar positions all seemed pretty close (visually, i wasn't dealing with exact degrees here).
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13
Flogging the Vat 4956 horse
by MightierThanTheSword ini'm just curious about something & wonder if the experts could help.. basically i am documenting all of the main lines of evidence for the jws being the one & then investigating each claim systematically.. i have now reached the dreaded november 1st, 2011 watchtower & am sitting in front of a copy of cartes du ciel and a babylonian calendar converter i found at http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/babylon/babycal_converter.htm.
i realise these claims have been challenged and documented in depth elsewhere, but i'm keen to do my own research rather than copy & paste.
my question is regarding date conversion - when inputting the gregorian dates as given at the bottom of the tablet's translation i found at http://www.caeno.org/pdf/f019_translation.pdf then the lunar positions all seemed pretty close (visually, i wasn't dealing with exact degrees here).
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MightierThanTheSword
Thanks for the input guys, I realise I'm probably in over my head here, and yes I know there is plenty of other evidence but I'm trying to stick to what the WT is offering & to then disprove it. I think it would be more powerful that way. If they say "This is our source that proves we have The Truth" then I want to be able to say "I've looked at that exact same source and you are proveably lying." I'd rather put the time in to do that if possible, and leave no stone unturned.
the location you reference will make a difference in the date
I'm not being argumentative, just asking: what difference will this make with a calendar converter? I realise with an astronomy program it will make a difference, but surely software converting from one calendar to another would not change location between calendars?
I picked Cartes du Ciel since that's what the Society claims to have used in the 2011 WT endnote, and plonked in the coordinated of Babylon's ruins as found on Google Maps (this seems to tie in closely enough with the location specified in the Encyclopaedia Britannica).
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13
Flogging the Vat 4956 horse
by MightierThanTheSword ini'm just curious about something & wonder if the experts could help.. basically i am documenting all of the main lines of evidence for the jws being the one & then investigating each claim systematically.. i have now reached the dreaded november 1st, 2011 watchtower & am sitting in front of a copy of cartes du ciel and a babylonian calendar converter i found at http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/babylon/babycal_converter.htm.
i realise these claims have been challenged and documented in depth elsewhere, but i'm keen to do my own research rather than copy & paste.
my question is regarding date conversion - when inputting the gregorian dates as given at the bottom of the tablet's translation i found at http://www.caeno.org/pdf/f019_translation.pdf then the lunar positions all seemed pretty close (visually, i wasn't dealing with exact degrees here).
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MightierThanTheSword
I'm just curious about something & wonder if the experts could help.
Basically I am documenting all of the main lines of evidence for the JWs being The One & then investigating each claim systematically.
I have now reached the dreaded November 1st, 2011 Watchtower & am sitting in front of a copy of Cartes du Ciel and a Babylonian calendar converter I found at http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/babylon/babycal_converter.htm
I realise these claims have been challenged and documented in depth elsewhere, but I'm keen to do my own research rather than copy & paste. My question is regarding date conversion - when inputting the Gregorian dates as given at the bottom of the tablet's translation I found at http://www.caeno.org/pdf/F019_Translation.pdf then the lunar positions all seemed pretty close (visually, I wasn't dealing with exact degrees here). But the Gregorian dates in the above online converter are all shifted one day back, throwing out the lunar positions so that they don't really match.
I'm more inclined to believe the ones that match. ie. the dates on the translation PDF, but I've seen other researchers use, for example, April 23rd for Nisanu 1 instead of the April 22nd that's on the translation PDF.
I hope I'm not being dim and missing something obvious but, for example, one examination here uses April 22nd: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/216051/do-all-13-sets-lunar-positions-on-vat-4956-fit-year-588-587-b-c-e?size=10&page=1
And here uses April 23rd: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/216056/vat-4956-comparison-lunar-three-time-intervals-years-568-7-bce-588-7-bce?size=10&page=1
Is there really any reliable way to get a Gregorian date which I can put into Cartes du Ciel? I'm keen to work out the "official" Gregorian dates for 588 and put those in too (although I know this opens a can of worms as Furuli has his own dates for this).
Who'd have thought disproving 100+ years of changing doctrine could be so hard?
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12
Caleb Spoofs
by Smiles inmade these caleb & sophia spoofs in honor of am3 and his cronies at wbts.. enjoy.. smiles.
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MightierThanTheSword
Perhaps the Society could negotiate a contract to produce drones at Bethel
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Bethel already does
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Trolleys everywhere in my neck of the woods
by KateWild ini went to an appointment today and what do you know a trolley.. i couldn't stop and chat, but i have another appoinment thursday, i will go early and have a chat.
i love this it's great fun chatting to jws whilst being df'd.. any ideas for my presentation?.
do you think i am harming myself?.
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MightierThanTheSword
If you go into the trainstation you find all the abbandonned litterature there
True, but that's no different to finding it in everyone's recycle bins when doing D2D
I always assumed that's where they were going, since so many people would be really obvious about taking our stuff just to shut us up, then whatever stupid old bag I was working with would get all excited & write down every detail for a "nice return visit". Sometimes they'd give the details to me like it was some hallowed gift. I'd throw it in the bin when I got home Sorry if I sound bitter & angry, that's only cos I am You can start a thread and tell us your story if you like.
I might do that, where's the best place? I don't get much time to hang out on here so I'm not too familiar with it.
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Trolleys everywhere in my neck of the woods
by KateWild ini went to an appointment today and what do you know a trolley.. i couldn't stop and chat, but i have another appoinment thursday, i will go early and have a chat.
i love this it's great fun chatting to jws whilst being df'd.. any ideas for my presentation?.
do you think i am harming myself?.
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MightierThanTheSword
Not sure about elsewhere, but here in the UK the trolleys were trialled in London and Birmingham before spreading like cancer across the country. Living next to Birmingham as I do, I see them everywhere, all the time. The best is when the shouty born-agains and even-shoutier muslims set up camp nextdoor to the witnesses and then pick arguments with them... I actually feel sorry for them. Apparently they're shifting shitloads of Bible Teach books & magazines in Birmingham though. Since nobody answers the door on a Saturday morning anymore, I'm presuming the trolleys are working better for them.
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In your memory, what was the nicest day you had out in field service?
by LoisLane looking for Superman infor me, that happy day was in morro bay, calif. it was the fall, oct 1958 or 9. gorgeous weather.
the sun was shining and the wind was coming off of the ocean.. at that time, morro bay was unassigned territory.. talesin on another thread was talking about a lovely day she had, going with her grandfather, talking with a mr languages.
lol.
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MightierThanTheSword
Much as I hated the ministry, I do have a lot of good memories, mostly because the guys I worked with were pretty cool.
Back when I pioneered (only regular auxilliary but before the hour reductions so I was doing over 70 a month) I spent one sunny week doing ministry with my brother & two mates. We'd do the houses up to our local town, go to Dunkin Donuts, gorge ourselves in the park for a couple of hours, then do the not-homes from the same road back home again. Oh yes, we counted our doughnut time on the report.
Another mate (who is now an elder) had magazine routes in town, so we'd walk up & browse the shops for a couple of hours, do that one door, then come home having counted the whole time. He also had a mag route who called us in & gave us sherry in the winter, that was an easy hour, even though alcohol on the min apparently pisses off the holy spirit.
This mate's brother (now a pioneer elder & stand-in CO) and I used to work together every Wednesday up until a couple of years ago. We'd make the most epic sandwiches, gorge ourselves, watch TV, then go out for about an hour. He was too "good" to count his time... Iwasn't
Our cong is "blessed" with a lot of rural territory so some of my fondest memories are of wandering quiet sunlit country roads with houses spread so thinly you only find about 5 or 6 in an hour. I remember a girl I liked (now left, she was too pretty to stay a JW) standing in a clearing, in the sunlight, with all of these seeds floating gently past her...
So I guess having people who aren't to strict & "good" make the ministry bearable. It really helped offset the ministry-aversion that was drilled into me by my nutjob father growing up.
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Watchtower- Gnosticism
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inbefore i post this let me say i'm an atheist (though i have a respect for buddism and quantum mysticism).
the wikepedia definition of gnosticism is: "religions that taught that people should shun the material world created by the demiurge and embrace the spiritual world.
[1] gnostic ideas influenced many ancient religions[2] that teach that gnosis (variously interpreted as knowledge, enlightenment,salvation, emancipation or 'oneness with god') may be reached by practicingphilanthropy to the point of personal poverty, sexual abstinence (as far as possible for hearers, completely for initiates) and diligently searching forwisdom by helping others".
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MightierThanTheSword
One important distinction between the 2 is that studying Gnostic beliefs is actually quite interesting.