Posts by Myxomatosis

7

I'm guessing this is a lie.....

by Myxomatosis in

i need some input on this...this is from another mb i'm a member, and it is a discussion about salvation between a born-again jew, and a jehovah's witness.

the jehovah's witness i believe is being utterly deceptive about what is actually taught in the watchtower publications and kingdom halls, or is secondary to that of being a member of 'jehovah's organization' what do y'all think?

do you think this would fly if he were say on a mb simply of jehovah's witnesses or the kingdom hall?

Myxomatosis

Hello SF,

First off, Star Scream, thanks a bunch! That was very helpful indeed. purrrdy much confirmed what I suspected.

SF: rabbitdisease (Myxomatosis) is Jesse Glick (JG).????????

LMFAO WHAT????? ohp, you caught me! man really thought I could get away with that *boggles wildly*

SF: These two JW KLOWNS are all over the search engines.>>

ROFLMFAO

you have to be shitting me??? Actually, I have NEVER been a JW, I've only READ extensively about the WT, and I was asking THE EX-JW, because I want to know if it is REALLY said, since the Witnesses say there is so much false information out there or whatever. because I'm DEBATING Jw's, and I wanted to check out from people who have ACTUALLY BEEN ONE if what he's saying is a lie.

I dunno who Jesse Glick is, but as I have posted in other threads before this one, I am a CHRISTIAN, have NEVER been a Jehovah's Witness, and I feel absurd having to defend myself.

I'm on a search engine, btw??? That would be cool! You know, there ARE other people who could take on the name 'Myxomatosis'

that's all

Myxomatosis

3

'us' against 'them' mindset

by Myxomatosis in

jw
friends

i'm really curious as to what sort of verbal or otherwise abuse, if any, that everyone received as a jw.

did you get teased at all, threatened, shouted at, any damage to your physical property, leaflets left on the windshield, anything like that?

i ask because after reading this bit from steve hassan's book, and was already rather aware of this through my own personal experience, but what did that make you think about your beliefs?

Myxomatosis

Hi everyone,

I'm really curious as to what sort of verbal or otherwise abuse, if any, that everyone received as a JW.

Did you get teased at all, threatened, shouted at, any damage to your physical property, leaflets left on the windshield, anything like that?

I ask because after reading this bit from Steve Hassan's book, and was already rather aware of this through my own personal experience, but what did that make you think about your beliefs? Were you told or did you believe that any attacks on you or your beliefs were from 'Satan' trying to get you from the 'truth'? In 'Combatting Cult Mind Control' Steve mentions that while he was a
'moonie' he thought any organised or personal attack on the Unification churches beliefs, or claims, or members, only made them MORE convinced that they were the 'only true religion'....was it the same way for you? Before you left, and before you started to actually question, did you believe that literally anything critical of the Watch Tower, or any personal attacks on your beliefs, or teasing as a result, was caused by Satan and further proof that you indeed part of 'Jehovah's organization' the 'only true religion'?????

Also, that is something I've just been told by a current JW, she says that she gets alot of crap for being a JW, but she 'knows it's all from Satan....'
*rolls eyes*

Have they ever considered the possibility that people attack things that are BAD, where in any sort of situation can you find people only getting aggressive ONLY when it is GOOD? And for the most part, anyone it seems trying to get through to somebody who is not open or questioning themself, is really not possible, and terribly frustrating, hence, people get a bit angry, and react more forcefully perhaps. Especially since most current dubs, won't hear, think or see and examine [accusations] to see if they're valid, which is rather ironic when you think it is mostly directly from historical WT publications. I would say that anyone who has read a dime about the WT history probably knows more than the average JW,,what do you think? Either that, or they don't try and fool themselves into thinking that it is just the 'progressive understanding' of the WT.

This site is completely amazing to me because all you guys are ex-JW's, which blows my mind after now trying to reach a number of them with no success, just utter frustration at their clone thinking, wrote responses, and refusing to read the WT own HISTORY!!!!! It's enough to make a girl go wild *no, not like that!*. You guys are awesome!

Thanks,

Myxomatosis

7

I'm guessing this is a lie.....

by Myxomatosis in

i need some input on this...this is from another mb i'm a member, and it is a discussion about salvation between a born-again jew, and a jehovah's witness.

the jehovah's witness i believe is being utterly deceptive about what is actually taught in the watchtower publications and kingdom halls, or is secondary to that of being a member of 'jehovah's organization' what do y'all think?

do you think this would fly if he were say on a mb simply of jehovah's witnesses or the kingdom hall?

Myxomatosis

Hi Everyone,

I need some input on this...this is from another MB I'm a member, and it is a discussion about salvation between a born-Again Jew, and a Jehovah's Witness. The Jehovah's Witness I believe is being utterly deceptive about what is actually taught in the WatchTower publications and Kingdom Halls, or is secondary to that of being a member of 'Jehovah's organization' What do y'all think?

Do you think this would fly if he were say on a MB simply of Jehovah's Witnesses or the Kingdom Hall?

Is this what is actually taught?

Do you think if he were to bring these views to the elders he would have to have a 'meeting' to 'readjust spiritually' or whatever?

If this is what he actually believes,,,do you think he would be considered as having 'apostate tendencies'?? Or have to be set straight by the slave???

B.A.J: ...*DUBBIE*. can you give me an exact guide line of what it takes for you or me to be saved? I'm also interested in knowing what your take on the 1000 years is. What's the whole picture in that scenario as per your interpretation? I understand salvation but I would like to know if your understanding of it is different or about the same.

DUBBIE: said; A.O. OK a very brief explanation, since I am working on a little more involved, though still short, one on salvation for hank.

DUBBIE:.; Salvation: It is a free gift from God that we cannot earn. It is based on Faith in Jesus. We chose to love God and Jesus and obey them. We can also willfully change our minds. As long as we don't and are repentant when we sin, we are saved. Saved from the judgement of sin and death and have a relationship with God who declares us righteous even while sinners........"

BAJ: I understand your position but I have a different view of Eternal life and that is you can not lose salvation once you receive it. But my question for this would be how are we declared righteous even when we sin?

DUBBIE: said; A guide is a little harder. We learn about God and Christ accept Jesus as our savior and become obedient to them. We are baptized in symbol of that relationship. We follow his commands as well as those of his Father......."

BAJ: What are the commands of Christ as being separate from His Father, and what are those of the Father? And what name are you baptized in?

DUBBIE: said; Who is saved is up to Jesus not you or I. There would be evidence of salvation as James pointed out........."(Myx: arrrrrrghhhh!!!!)

BAJ: Why do you think that James is talking about works as a prerequisite for salvation? And (According to your words) why do you think it's up to Jesus? Are you saying that we have to do good works to measure up to His righteousness and then wait to see if we are good enough under His judgment to be saved?

DUBBIE: said; 1000 years:

This is the Millenial reighn of Jesus Christ over the earth accompanied by his Brothers, who are Born Again and go to heaven, as fellow rulers. Those who live into that time will be joined by those resurrected. During that time all will learn fully about God and have an opportunity to share in realizing the command God first gave Adam regarding the earth. Man will return to perfection during that time under Jesus' love and care.........."

BAJ: Who do you, think Jesus' brothers are? I thought you said they would be on earth, but you used the term "who are Born Again and go to heaven, as fellow rulers." Are there two different places for Jesus' brothers to be at the same time?

DUBBIE: Free from the influence of satan man will have an opportuntiy to come to know God and will be able to freely put faith in Him and be obedient or reject Him and follow Satan at the end of the 1000 years. those that are faithful will then enjoy the life as Sons of God on earth forever. Those that chose to follow Satan as did Adam originally will be gone forever........"

"Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization-God's visible organization -- that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal... You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life..."

Watchtower 1959 January 15 pp.39-41 Down with the Old-Up with the New!

Myx: YOU MUST BE PART OF THE WT ORG. Now, is this taught FIRST, and then to placate perhaps those who actually take a peek at the New Testament, it is said that Salvation is a free gift through Jesus Christ?

Thanks everyone.

Myxomatosis

*I hope his next sh*t is a porcupine*

-JG

153

Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic?

by StinkyPantz in

this quote got me thinking:if you pray sincerely and admit you are a sinner and accept christ as your savior you can have the holy spirit come into your life.. .

i used to do this everyday.

when i was being abused, i used to pray incessantly for god to help me.

Myxomatosis

Hi Greven!

Greven: I think you misunderstood my post a bit...

Myx: oooooooooh (!)

Greven:

You, on the other hand, seem to have solid reasons for your faith and believe in G-d. You have done extensive research into this matter! I am very interested in your reasons for faith and belief, please enlighten us so we can have a debate.

Myx: I'd love to talk with you. And likewise I'm very interested in your reasons for *dis* belief, it would be much easier if I had some idea as to YOUR reasons why you do not believe in G-d first. ? Also, have some idea on your view of Jesus Christ?
I wouldn't know where to start otherwise

Myx: I've not been on here long and you've probably posted this before, but how long have you been free from the Watch Tower?

Greven: Anyway I gave both sides a good hearing for more then two years before reaching my conclusions. I must admit however that I hardly read anything about easter religions.

Myx: 'easter' religions? Are you really from the Netherlands then? cos I don't understand what you mean... Have conclusions, but don't disregard further proof on account of them.

Greven: After tossing the Judeo/Christian concept of God I moved to the existance of God(s) in general.

Myx: Why's that? So I take it you disbelieve the Bible to be the 'word of G-d naturally, could you tell me why, or just post wotever links that would explain your reasons so you don't have to write it all out?

Myx: *applauds* very good! That's right cool, good for you! Where you going to school?

Greven: 'Mere Christianity' C.S. Lewis? Never heard of it. I will get it. Thanx for the suggestion.

Myx: bitte. Never heard of it, eh? Of course you've heard of the author C.S. Lewis right?? (Chronicles of Narnia?) It will explain in depth one of the major reasons for the belief in G-d
I will have a go at 'Small gods'

Greven: Thanks for your nice replies! It's nice conversing with you. Welcome to the site btw.

Myx: Thank you for your lovely reply to, thanks!

Myx: Sorry for the curt *and late* reply, I'm rather busy at the moment, and again very sleepy (4:45 por la manana!!) Hope to hear from you soon

Cheers

Myxomatsis

*frankly Mr.Shankly since you asked
you are a flatulent pain in the a**
I do not mean to be so rude
but I must speak frankly Mr.Shankly*

-The Smith's

153

Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic?

by StinkyPantz in

this quote got me thinking:if you pray sincerely and admit you are a sinner and accept christ as your savior you can have the holy spirit come into your life.. .

i used to do this everyday.

when i was being abused, i used to pray incessantly for god to help me.

Myxomatosis

Hi realist

realist: hmmmm i am not sure if i understand this right. you mean we have to prove that there is no god?

Myx: I'm saying that I think that trying to prove that there is no God, and in the case of Christianity, that Christ is not who He claimed, nor what His followers claimed is probably not too bad of an idea. :)

realist: what about jesus? he exists only in the bible so how can he serve as valid proof?

Myx: Quatsch! Are you KIDDING me? Perhaps you should check it out a bit more thoroughly before you say something like that... :) Also, ummm, what is it you think about the NT then,,,,Jesus was a figment of the Apostles imaginations??,,,,,he really never lived but was created by religious persons 200 A.D??.,,,,He is a myth constructed from various pagan myths of earlier times??,,,which one?

realist: i am really in and from austria

Myx: Oh cool! You speak english perfectly! I'm impressed. Why is it that Europeans are so much better than Americans when it comes to speaking other languages?

realist: where are you from???

Myx: Ich komme aus den USA (dummer esel Amerikaner :) *yes, I know what I'm saying...i think*

ciao

Myxomatosis

153

Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic?

by StinkyPantz in

this quote got me thinking:if you pray sincerely and admit you are a sinner and accept christ as your savior you can have the holy spirit come into your life.. .

i used to do this everyday.

when i was being abused, i used to pray incessantly for god to help me.

Myxomatosis

Hi Realist!

Thank you for giving me an opportunity to explain myself.

<I think the ultimate test for anything is not that it can be 'proven' but it CAN NOT be disproven.>

<that is not true in most cases. a theory has to be testable in order for your statement to work. i can claim that there are little green man living on a planet 5 million light years away. this claim CAN NOT be disproven - not because it is an accurate claim but because there is simply no way of verifying that claim.>

I agree hon! Thanks for bringing that up, I couldn't exactly put into words what I was trying to say, and like I said, it was late, even later now. I actually found that statement puzzling myself lol, that's why I said 'I don't know what I'm talking about' but...I've thought of what I meant to say *i think*. That is, that perhaps it is best to start from the assumption that it is NOT TRUE, that there is NOT a God, that Christ did not live, etc etc., and then try to prove that, start trying to disprove what is 'truth' to some, does that make a little more sense? ehhh. Yeah, I think that's what I meant. (Also, with the whole thing about 'parousia' or the 'invisible presence' as Raymond Franz says that is a very difficult thing to disprove, and you and he are right)

<as to the rest of your post...what is the strongest evidence you have that the christian (or any god for that matter) exists. maybe we can focus on that.>

In a word, as a Christian? Yeshua

Of course, I will answer this more fully, and if you have any more specific questions or doubts, or wotever in regard to Him, then please start me off, if you don't mind?? :)

Are you really from Austria by the way??? Or just like the flag or something?

Es war nett dich kennengelernt, realist.

(any good?)
aufwiedersehen

Myxomatosis

17

Matthew 24:36

by ClassAvenger in

i need someone to explain to me matthew 24:36, preferably people who support the trinity.

it states that no one knows the second coming of jesus, not even the angels, just the father.

my question is, how can jesus not know his second coming if he is part of the trinity, or part of god?

Myxomatosis

Hi Hamas

<<<<It is up to you, but I wouldn't let dogged trinitarian beliefs indoctrinise themselves into your mind.>>>>

err...ok. I'm not trying to be deceptive or dogged, it is what I believe, yes, as a person who is not Catholic, or part of any 'dogmatic' organisation. Also, people can decide whether what I say for themselves is of any worth. I'm not trying to hypnotise anybody here. People can think for themselves (esp. now since they can TRULY examine what is being said)

<<There is only one God; our creator. He is not part of any trinity.>>

Ok.

Why? I would say that there is ONLY One G-d too. So, why does it say in Scripture that Jesus is the Creator, by whom all things were made, and without Whom NOTHING was made? I'm sorry, I don't know what your beliefs are, and I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I don't know if you still accept the Bible. But, I do hope you realise the parts that the WatchTower has CHANGED in order to suit the theology that the Father ALONE is G-d. I don't see why they would need to do that if it truly were unbiblical. But you may not believe in the Bible? I dunno. Whatever is cool.

Do you still believe then as the Watch Tower teaches that the Father is exclusively Jehovah, and alone is God?

Can you tell me why?

Would you mind listening to an *unbiased* (meaning non-dilluted) party explain Biblically why G-d exists in three persons?

Or do you somehow still think it is pagan, or Platonic, or of the devil, or wotever? why?

thanks, that's all

Myxomatosis

17

Matthew 24:36

by ClassAvenger in

i need someone to explain to me matthew 24:36, preferably people who support the trinity.

it states that no one knows the second coming of jesus, not even the angels, just the father.

my question is, how can jesus not know his second coming if he is part of the trinity, or part of god?

Myxomatosis

Hi Craig,

<Myxo: Iranaeus? Kant? Hermeneutics? Oh, are you a man after my own heart! btw, how long have you been killing rabbits? LOL> lol brilliant! No one's caught that! I must plead innocent to rabbit wacking, as I only adopted the title knowing it as a tight Radiohead song..honest! :) Then I read Thom's interview in Spin...

btw, I'm a chick (not a girl, not yet a woman, or wotever Busty Spears says) 19/f/US. Nice to meet you! That's well cool you liking them too!

153

Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic?

by StinkyPantz in

this quote got me thinking:if you pray sincerely and admit you are a sinner and accept christ as your savior you can have the holy spirit come into your life.. .

i used to do this everyday.

when i was being abused, i used to pray incessantly for god to help me.

Myxomatosis

Hi Greven,

<<When I left though, I was determined to find objective truth: how do I know there is a God? Is the bible reliable, inspired? etc etc. These are not details! An entire beliefsystem is constructed upon it, and a life adjusted to it. My queste for truth showed these to be uninspired, inconsistent and often plain wrong.>>>

Ok, so it's quite obvious you've read the arguments against the Bible, Christianity, wotever, I am curious to what you've read on the 'other side' of that, the facts that are more to the pro leaning you know? Perhaps you've come to think that 'checking out both sides' is checking out the criticism of what you 'believe' I'm not saying you haven't, but I've read why the bible isn't reliable, inspired again, on the ex-Christian web, but I have also read the argument for why it IS inspired reliable, etc. If you have only ever been a Jehovah's Witness, then I think you would agree you never had the 'truth' Biblically to begin with? At least, I would say absolutely 100% not... I would like to recommend the books I'm currently reading actually if you'd be interested, and if you want to keep searching on this subject, only if you're interested.

<<<<That doesn't mean I toss the moral codes, mind you. It simply means I do not see the writings as God's but human.>>>

two words honey 'Mere Christianity' C.S. Lewis, please do read it.

disagree with it, but please read it?

*In Pitch Dark

I go walking in your landscape
Broken Branches
Trip me as I speak

Just cos you feel it
doesn't mean it's there*

-Radiohead
'There There'

153

Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic?

by StinkyPantz in

this quote got me thinking:if you pray sincerely and admit you are a sinner and accept christ as your savior you can have the holy spirit come into your life.. .

i used to do this everyday.

when i was being abused, i used to pray incessantly for god to help me.

Myxomatosis

Hello Greven

I'm a Christian (never been a JW) who is very interested in 'debating' let's start?

<<<After being thoroughly deceived by people into believing JW's have the absolute truth I vowed I would never believe people without doing research myself.>>>

sehr gut.

<<<<Why would you base anyhing, like the existance of God, on faith at all? I am not saying you are wrong. Your conclusion can be valid, but should be build upon solid research, get the facts, look upon the issue from various stances, hear pro and con and then make up your conclusion.>>>

Hmmmm, this is a big misunderstanding. There would be no faith without fact. At least in Christianity (and naturally, there is truth in EVERY religion, I would say as a Christian, but not always with regard to God (in 'monotheistic' religions), the Object :). There is the faith 'train' NUMBER ONE: FACT NUMBER TWO: FAITH NUMBER THREE: FEELING. I wouldn't have faith without fact. please. That's just a very poor understanding of faith, and no wonder, as far as I can surmise, the WT slanders Christians nonstop for their belief in 'FAITH' in Christ as the redemption. That IS what is true, it DOES NOT mean faith that is empty, based upon air, it is based absolutely on FACT, we have faith IN the FACTS. As for me, oh my, I hope this does not come off as tooting my horn or something, but just to let you know, more specifically, not just generally that I have checked out both sides (actually *the many many* sides) ,,,I've been on neo-pagan, atheist and the like websites (typing 'Pagans views on Christianity' in search engine, if you want to see what I mean) that listed off at least 20 'deities' or 'god's' all myths, that were the basis for the 'Christ-myth' reading all that was said, and being quite alarmed frankly at the time. I've also been on THE ex-Christian web, where it was much different from any of the ex-JW or wotever sites I'd been on looking up their beliefs, because on all the ex-JW, it was only highlighting the lies of the ORGANIZATION past and present, where on this website it was directly attacking GOD, JESUS CHRIST, and the BIBLE. Nothing I'd ever seen before. I did look at that, yes, truly, sorry have to say, the views of 'apostates' in the Bible (those who turn and teach against Jesus and God, not a false organization :) but I was determined to do it, since I did not wish to be a hypocrite, asking others, such as members of cults to check out what they believed, whilst refusing to do the same.

In regards to checking out not only anti-Christ views, and simply anti- 'Creator' I would say to you, I've read apologies for 'agnosticism' (mostly because my bro was claiming to be one at the time) I've read the 'basics of existialism' some 'Jean-Paul Sartre', I've read too many different persons ideas on WHY they DO NOT believe in God, all over, I've read 'A brief History of Time' (which I've found very useful as a Christian :) by the very Atheistic and brilliant Steven Hawkings, ummm, let me see, I went to public school where evolution is shoved down your throat from when you're a wee one. As well as further reading differing theories on evolution, watching programs on it, etc. etc. I don't think there's one person on earth today who doesn't have a working knowledge of the basics of evolution, simply by the fact that it is saturated in all manner of texts, t.v. programs etc.

I've read about Hinduism, Buddhism, Islaam, the major religions in the world, as well as the cults of Christianity, all because of my concern ABOUT MY BELIEFS, why do I believe this, why is it 'right'?. And I have no intention to stop reading about other faiths, other views, and in fact, anti-views. That had to be to me the most bothersome thing I found about the Watch Tower when I was learning about them, the seal on information, something I couldn't relate to being a Christian. Not even being able to accept literature from 'Christendom' whilst expecting them to not only accept but purchase their literature. (right?)

You must understand that to me, the very toughest and challenging of all of these were the accussations towards Christ.

Though, sadly, these accussations turned out to be quite devious and empty on further examination. If you wish me to explain please ask. I don't want to make this too long.

Again, very simple misunderstanding of Faith, and belief. You wouldn't deny yourself the claim that you are 'disbelieving' in God, or 'believing' in evolution or whatever, if it were not based on what you KNOW to be FACT, would you now? Or are you just as airheaded as us Christians, you know, just believing for no 'good reason'? I really wouldn't know where to start as to why I believe...Do you have any specific inquiries, and do you mind long winded responses? :) And also 'Faith' is a dynamic everyday quantity, not limited to the belief in the Creator.

<<<Some believe in fairies, others are convinced the Loch Ness monster exists. They do not become real because people believe in them. Do you believe in any of them? If not: why not? Try to find the reason why you do not believe in them and then you'll see why many people do not believe in God. --> Absense of evidence for, and plenty against.>>>>>

That's very good. I think the ultimate test for anything is not that it can be 'proven' but it CAN NOT be disproven. For example, people may be able to prove that something existed, unless there came along stronger evidence that not only nullified, but came to be the 'truth' about it. You can 'prove' with 'evidence' that bigfoot exists, but that can easily be disproven. Actually I don't know what I'm talking about it's very late, I hope this made sense, hope you read it even. :)

Myxomatosis

*happiness is a warm gun*