Posts by Myxomatosis

7

What Galvanizes the Preaching in Most Witnesses? What Did it For You?

by Myxomatosis in

jw
friends

'couldn't be done without the holy spirit' is the phrase that i have seen spouted by loyal dubbies.

no doubt appearing subtly or explicitly in one or more of the watch tower publications.

i'm wondering, if you could think back to when you were preaching, especially if you were pioneering, what were your personal motivating factors, what did you tell yourself, and was there a source of that suggestion?

Myxomatosis

Mouthy:I preached even though I didnt think I would get the prize. The scriptures say your forgiven a multitude of sin if you turn one sinner back. I had a multitude be fore the witness came to my door. So I thought I would do the best I could to "cover my butt" so to speak. But I used to tell Jehovah I never wanted anything in return- just to serve him & give others the chance to have the paradise promised.... Then the brothers? would stress how close it was- so I worked real hard -made 10 people JWs...I felt it was a nessesary thing to do.

Myx: So as a Witness you felt it necessary since the end was so near and you wanted to give others a chance to be in paradise, though you yourself felt unworthy??? Did they ever tell you not to worry, whoever has the Son has the Father, and their is no work that you can do to "earn" it? Did they stress His Mercy?? Or would you often worry that Jehovah was just ticking up all those times you'd been a naughty Mouthy? Sort of waiting to pounce on your faults and shortcomings if you will?? and you netted 10! Are they all still good Dubs too?

Mouthy: after all I didnt want folks to die!!!!! Yes I was under a real Mind job!!!!

Myx: lol! Was that a driving factor? It seems like the Watch Tower, in all its caniving ways does very well in preying on the good peoples good hearts. Another reason why I detest it. Oh, and also peoples trust and hope, that so soon God will set up this kingdom which you can live forever on...no more hurt.

Mouthy: they taught me well. But now I am doing all they taught me to do. Declaring to everyone who will listen to Watch out for the Wolves in Sheep clothing ( otherwise named Jehovahs Witnesses,.

Myx: rock and roll.

Flowerpetal

I preached because I thought that was the thing to do, to help people get to know about the Bible's promises which I still believe in, paradise earth included, because I believe humans were created to live forever, on this earth or at least a very long time; except I don't accept the societies chronology of counting time. So I suppose I did it out of love--I wanted people to know life wasn't going to be so stressful or always full of problems. I also want to say, I enjoy being a human being and I enjoy all the pleasures of being a human.

Myx: Would you have preached if you didn't think that the 'new system' was so close, so that others might share in this promise by coming into the 'visible organization'??

Somethings about Paradise earth in the way the Watch Tower has made it not only perplex me but really disturb me. It's in the way the Witnesses talk about it I s'pose. I don't know how else to put it, but it seems that they have the people on "paradise" earth separate from God and Jesus...like they are still off in the heavens while these new people are inhabiting a pretty earth simply with other humans. They are living forever APART from the bridegroom and the Heavenly Father. First, I think that to have a reward and not be able to dwell in the presence of the one you have served, to not be in the presence of the Christ and the Father for all time, is quite UNrewarding. I think if anything God wants us to BE WITH HIM. Otherwise why did He send His Son? I wouldn't be a very happy bride if my beloved who I had trusted believed and worked on account of was off somewhere with just a very small number of 'anointed'...I'd probably prefer to be near Him...

Besides, in an orthodox fashion one could very well look at the supposed "paradise" and if separation everlasting, though you would be in a very lovely place with very lovely people, one could rightly compare this to Hell ...without the figurative descriptives. In its essence, Hell as it is thought, would be, separation FROM God...I see the same thing be happily purported as a paradise by the WT. The other thing is time, It looks as if the 'paradise' expected is still functioning on a four-D plane, with organic life and matter. I would not say that a new earth is not possible or in the works, we won't know til we die. But the WT in its essence is to me encapsuled in the word 'manmade'. I think it's Rutherfords farce.

FP: I would not use "works" in connection with JWs but PERFORMANCE, I believe that is a better word. The emphasis of "do more, do more, do more" is associated with PERFORMANCE more than works.

Myx: very good. The reason I asked this was so I wouldn't shoot my mouth off to Witnesses I encounter who if they will talk to me at all will likely bring up the preaching effort. (I have the idea 'the end is so near' rhetoric and constant spoken 'encouragement' from the WT and congregation...seems there's more to it :) I'm trying to understand so I can direct their attention to WHY that is in a way that even if they deny, they'll perhaps have to admit to themselves!?

btw, FlowerPetal, how long have you been out?

thanks so much for your response!!

Myxomatosis

7

What Galvanizes the Preaching in Most Witnesses? What Did it For You?

by Myxomatosis in

jw
friends

'couldn't be done without the holy spirit' is the phrase that i have seen spouted by loyal dubbies.

no doubt appearing subtly or explicitly in one or more of the watch tower publications.

i'm wondering, if you could think back to when you were preaching, especially if you were pioneering, what were your personal motivating factors, what did you tell yourself, and was there a source of that suggestion?

Myxomatosis

'couldn't be done without the holy spirit' is the phrase that I have seen spouted by loyal dubbies. No Doubt appearing subtly or explicitly in one or more of the Watch Tower publications.

I'm wondering, if you could think back to when you were preaching, especially if you were pioneering, WHAT were your personal motivating factors, what did you tell yourself, and was there a source of that suggestion? And at the present, what do you see to be the motivating factors as dictated by the Watch Tower for the Witnesses you know/in general?

Did the Watch Tower ever imply subtly or outright that your righteousness before Jehovah was in some way or in a large way dependant on your performance?

Was it espoused that the fact that the JW's had a high preaching rate was is proof of the "true religion" in any publications you can recall? They're the only ones obeying the commandment of Matt 24:14???? Did you rather grand to be part of all that?? Like you were a walking talking fulfilment of prophecy?

As far as I can tell any and all "good works" that can be done are...preaching! Is the Watch Tower good at mentioning the REAL "good works" such as taking care of widows orphans, caring for the needy, or did you feel that this was the "good works" the Bible talks about on account of the Watch Tower?

To what degree do you feel that your personal door to door was compulsory?

Would you have preached as much or even at all if you were not just so sure of the promise that the 'new system' was just round da corner?

Did you feel in any way afraid that your future in paradise erf depended on your diligence in the preaching effort?

How big of a motivation for you was fear? Guilt? Pressure?

When I listened to Lorri Macgregors testimony online, she said something to the effect of "if I didn't think that Armageddon was coming each day, I would NOT have preached, I could not" Was this similar to your feelings?

How big of a factor would you say was the immenency 'probly be tomorrer' of Armageddon in going out and preaching??

Looking back now, were you doing it at the time out of pure joy and love for God and man? Were you just made to believe so because that's were how the Watch Tower put it? Do you see now you were fooling yourself sort of psychologically? Or can you see now that other factors like I've already asked here were at all involved?

How big of a motivator was the message of Jesus' D,B,&R for you? Did the Watch Tower offer this as encouragement for preaching???

Finally,,,, HOW often is/was preaching "encouraged" in the books, magazines, weekly meetings, by your JW relatives, friends, and what did that encouragement consist of? From what I can figger, it seems almost like passive psychological terrorism, just beating that drum....calling those who were not as active or are not "spiritually weak" .....phrasing rhetorical questions designed it seems to induce guilt "Don't we want to demonstrate our gratefulness for Jehovah's wonderful coming provision" or something of that nature...and many more...

Did I miss anything?

thanks in advance to everyone who responds!

13

LOL, He's more than just a pretty Bush

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

found this on a web-log and had to share:.

tit for tat retaliation is what destroys global trade and relationships.. and the current chief executive, if it were a pin up girl, would have really big tits.

fancy tat..

Myxomatosis

Salut!

comment vas tu ajourd'hui? (sp?)

... Enough to get the point !!! ... you are very modest !!!

Myx: Lol! sorry, wrote that over like a 2 hour period, should really proof read! mais, merci.

Ok now here is the deal for them : Those who wants a lot of monney :
(win more on the numbers of sells than the price)

More people in good shape / more economy = more trades = more numbers of sells ! (THEY STILL CAN WIN IF THEY HELP !!!)

Myx: much more succint way than I put it, but yeah, that's my thoughts!

I mean : Acting like US and ALIKE are doing is like eating the egg instead of letting the egg being mature and multiply whith all his ressources ... mores eggs !!! for everyone - even for them

Myx: oh....they're more than that. they're nest robbers. they want all the eggss

IF we don't wan't to be lead by either china or usa and alike and gives the whole world a chance we have to try SOMETHING ! and really get what we deserve

Myx: exactly, what we have now isn't really healthy for many nations. maybe a more fair trade would fail economies miserably, but its worth the risk with hundreds of millions of people in poverty for a variety of reasons, but unfair trade is something the US and the EU can effect if they are willing.

13

LOL, He's more than just a pretty Bush

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

found this on a web-log and had to share:.

tit for tat retaliation is what destroys global trade and relationships.. and the current chief executive, if it were a pin up girl, would have really big tits.

fancy tat..

Myxomatosis

let me just say, Free Trade, as it stands today, is not only crap, but destructive to developing countries, and a major negative force. Thanks in large part to the powerful West, the what I consider beastly World Trade Organization.

Free trade is all about corporate subsidies

The problem with it is it is not really free, I don't really know alot about this, and I am no expert, but I understand the numbers and I understand abject poverty as a result many times of the horrible free trade laws. I'll try and put into words what little I know, and perhaps then you will be interested to read somewhere you can actually learn more :)

For one thing, in agriculture (cos this is the market I know most about...:) the U.S. dept. of Agriculture can and does subsidize farmers HEAVILY (only U.S. farmers of course), causing their own crops to balloon, making SOME very wealthy farmers. (to give you a number:::: the U.S. has paid nearly 20 BILLION dollars a year to crop farmers....and they don't pay taxes, at least, my wealthy as hell relatives who are wheat farmers who make probably twice the income as my parents pay NO TAXES,,,whereas it's over 20,000 a year in taxes going to the government for my fam. but that's a separate issue no?)

This policy of the U.S. (which actually they had promised the international community to start scaling this back....nine years ago...they haven't delivered.) This cheap-grain policy is really beneficial to multinational agribusiness firms, large livestock operators, and importers?not crop farmers, now regularly selling grain below their cost of production. Big business wins.

The protests of the World Trade Organization down in Cancun Mexico last year where they were doing their talks (which got jack nothing accomplished) by the farmers came mostly as a result of America DUMPING its surplus corn onto Mexican markets, at greatly reduced prices since there was such a surplus. This action is absolutely terrible as seen by the effects it has on the Mexican corn farmers. They can't compete. They are not subsidized 13 Dodge Rams farmers. That is one of Mexicos biggest markets and we basically stole it by doing this.

Which is Ironic because of the US own actions against dumping within ITS borders::

Countervailing Duties: The US imposes import tariffs -- often 100% or more -- on goods which the government determines have been dumped.

Of course, the EU does the same, even more it seems, subsidizing 100bn in recent years.

http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=8450

Anyways, probably someone on the boards who will know more about this, but as to this:

Seattleniceguy: (I was just in Seattle in November btw :)

Maybe someone can humor me on this. If trade is totally free and unregulated,

Myx: That's where most of this misunderstanding comes from. "Free" Trade is HEAVILY regulated.

SNG: doesn't that mean that whatever country can produce the goods cheapest will win,

Myx: not necessarily no. Look at the controversial move of Bush applying tarriffs to imported steel (which was just repealed last month) to protect U.S. steel, not because it was produced CHEAPER...

"The 1995 replacement of GATT by the WTO heightened concern among critics because its stronger enforcement powers represent a further shift in power from citizens and national governments to a global authority run by unelected bureaucrats. Business, academic, and government supporters applaud the WTO as a more muscular sheriff of the world trading system." Sarah Anderson and John Cavanagh

SNG: regardless of what they are doing to the environment or their human workforce? I've been trying to wrap my brain around this problem, because it seems hard to understand it correctly.

Myx: they don't give a damn for the people. with the application of tarrifs, taxes, what have you, the "free trade" can benefit whom it will, whilst crippling nations with less power. The U.S. has immense power, if the U.S. were to reduce it's import tarriffs on some African goods by 1% it would not only compensate for, but exceed the actual amount of financial humanitarian aid they receive from the U.S., is that not a bit screwed up????

"Under the WTO, a nation cannot discriminate against products on the basis of how they are produced?be it by child labor or with environmentally destructive technologies. U.S. law, for example, has banned tuna imports from countries that allow long circular nets designed to catch tuna, but which also trapped and killed numerous dolphins. Yet in the eyes of the WTO, a can of tuna is a can of tuna, whether dolphins were killed in the production process or not."

Yeah, Fair Trade is different from "Free" Trade as it would place restrictions on imports based on concerns for environmental, labor aspects. In other words, Free Trade is business. Fair Trade is saying, hey, if you underpay your workforce, violate human rights in the production of your goods, or if you are in offense of environmental standards, you won't be getting our business.

Myx: hopefully!

SNG: If the US were to go ahead with fair trade, wouldn't that seal the fate of many domestic industries, such as steel, since other nations can produce it more plentifully and cheaply?

Myx: Well, I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem to necessarilly be simply who produces it "cheapest" in fact, I would think that if fair trade were to supercede free trade, then it would become necessary to pay employees and producers at least a fair amount, making the big corporations who like to prey on where they can acquire it cheapest, more balanced. Because they would have to settle for less profit for the big guys, whilst giving an actual livable salary to the workers. Of course, this is just one consequence... So, it would put them in a hard place, not having this gaping differential in labor where it's obvious who they'll choose. It will do more to even the markets, and I don't think that would see the downfall of American industries. We cannot be hindered in making trade fair for the world by a potential occurence when it is so clear and obvious, the discrepancy so massive, that it is vital that a change be made.

Here's a little bit on the NAFTA agreement, by the illustrious Noam Chomsky, it rather illustrates who benefits from 'free' trade....of course this is the North American agreement, but I think it's indicative of what happens in other sectors concerning free trade:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/ChomOdon_FreeTrade.html

Is the idea that this would occur until said nations' currency was on par with the dollar, at which point it might be economically feasible to produce steel domestically again? Is the idea that fair trade gradually brings all participating nations to the same economic plane, even if it means massive upheavals during the process?

Myx: I might be wrong. I have very limited knowledge really, there's alot I don't know, but I would think That's not really it. It's more paying the peoples what they actually deserve, it would really make the big corporations accountable to pay producers in poorer countries they basically loot at this point what would be fair. I don't think that's the general idea, to bring nations currecy on par with the dollar. Though, the West does cripple developing countries through heavy taxation and tarriffs, protecting its markets. What is vital is that those discrimatory, I would say criminal practices be halted, but the ultimate goal is to help suffering countries, and stop powering through with crippling regulations because we can, and it is in some 'special' interests.

Thanks for any info or resources.

Myx: One of the best Websites that I'm a member that is really doing a fantastic job with awareness, and very proactive with regard to reform is the non-profit group Oxfam.

www.MakeTradeFair.com

www.Oxfam.org

I probably gave you alot of information that doesn't relate to what you were asking, but I though I put in my 50 cent. there's lots of great sites on the web re: WTO, trade, free trade. Fair trade is not perfect, but I do believe it is better.

hope everyone on the board is well!

Myxomatosis

two organizations share the initials WT....both seem to be intrisically filth.

7

My story in part.........

by What The....... in

jw
friends

i preached to a jw and they used the following verse against me:

phi 2:6

"who existing in the nature of god, did not consider being equal to god something to be held onto," he said that this was one of the texts that disproved the trinity because it does not state that he was god, but that he existed in the nature of god: divine.

Myxomatosis

If a person would just "inform" themselves about the history behind the NT.......they would understand why the confusion regarding this subject.The trinity will twist your brains in knots. It's much easier to find the "source" of the problem..............that being those who fabricated and twisted the story of any life Jesus might have had here on earth, and put it into the bible.

Gumby

Myx: Hey Gumby!

isn't it pretty much religion and doctrine that makes a person doubt the existence of God?

I know it has for me...

As for the Trinity? Well, yeah, it's not what you'd expect..that's one of the reasons I believe it.

As for the fabrication of the New Testament. I'm not gonna give a whole lot of information in support of it, cos I don't think you're interested...neither am I frankly.

The thing I've thought about recently is what if He did exist? I mean the Jesus written of in the New covenant? How would I feel about a person that allegedly did and said the things attributed to Him in the NC? Including, as the gospels have it, suffering every pain and dying for every wrong that humankind has done, did or will ever do. Making His suffering on the cross literally unimaginable. If it's true. What would I think of Him?

I'm just drawn to that. I think that I have not seen compelling evidence to the contrary (and I've seen my share) that has not been refuted, that He didn't exist, and until I am convinced by the truth as it be of the matter, I don't think I really want to deny Him.

I think you've been hurt by religion and what you thought was god...and intellectually satisfy that pain by being able to tell yourself and me that it's all bunk. Perhaps your right. *am worn down from all the different ideas*

anyways, I really dunno what I think or what to say. I'm tired.

I hope you find peace and joy ...I think you're cool!

cheers Gumby,

Myxomatosis