Oh, I hope not! I've been extremely busy lately working morn til late at night and haven't been checking here. I just checked for the first time in a while and this is what I see. Somebody asked how old he was. I'm pretty sure he was 60ish... I'm thinking early 60's. I was not aware of his having any health issues. I think he played tennis a lot. My insides literally did something (moved or something) - I don't know how to describe it - when I read that he had died. I so hope it's not true.
Posts by Magnum
-
58No more Questions from MINIMUS
by was a new boy inminimus former jw, prolific poster on jwn died.. minimus.
joined 19 years ago.
started 4,139 topics.
-
-
-
154
Logical Fallacy… can I get some help here?
by DATA-DOG indr. leanna wen is currently spreading the fallacy that unvaccinated persons should have vaccines mandated because they are like drunk drivers… they have the right to be drunk at home she says, but wanting to be part of society at large without being vaccinated is like driving drunk and putting others at risk.
besides ignoring the science proving that persons who have had sars cov-2 have natural immunity that equals or exceeds anything that could be imparted from the mrna shot, without the side effects or need for boosters, ( sorry big pharma, you’ll be losing $$$ ) this illustration just smacks of illogical reasoning.
it reminds me of the borg comparing getting baptized to getting your driver’s license.
-
-
Magnum
I'm focusing, not on the particulars of the illustration you mentioned, but the general logical fallacy.
This is logically fallacious. I have given a significant amount of thought to this particular fallacy and don't know whether it has been named. I started thinking about it back when I was a JW and encountered people in the ministry who would use illustrations to try to prove the Trinity doctrine. I was once working with my long-time JW grandfather in the door-to-door work. He encountered a man who told him that the trinity is like an egg.... there are three parts - white, yolk, and shell - but they make up one egg.
My grandfather was frustrated, and later he asked me "How can I counter that?" After thinking about it, I realized that illustrations don't prove anything; they simply can help people to understand a point one's making whether that point is true or not. The answer my grandfather could have given to the man is "No, it's not like that."
Here is an example of an illustration that's wrong: Many of us might remember being taught in school that electrons orbit the nuclei of atoms like planets orbit the sun. We might remember images like this:
The problem is, though, that it's simply not true. The illustration is completely wrong. Electrons are not little particles that orbit around in paths as shown in the image. They do not behave that way at all. They are not in any way like planets that behave largely according to classical mechanics. They don't even follow certain paths. They obey quantum mechanics. One can only speak of the probably of finding an electron in a certain place at a given time, and the probability clouds look nothing like the orbitals shown above.
So, the fact that one can produce an illustration to try to prove a point in no way proves that point. The fact that one can say that electrons orbit nuclei as planets orbit the sun proves nothing.
One could simply and easily and logically correctly refute her by saying "No, they're not like drunk drivers."
-
11
Beyond the Watchtower
by BereanThinker7 inhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/203474749415.
im a watchtower/bible students history nerd.
i find the movement that engulfed my entire family fascinating.
-
-
Magnum
TD, when I clicked on the link, I got
The file you requested has been deleted
-
18
The Light Actually IS Getting Brighter
by Magnum inthe light really is getting brighter, but what kind?
i can think of three types of figurative light in this context:.
1) that which jws refer to and they base on pr 4:18. light on a path... light that gets brighter.
-
-
Magnum
The light really IS getting brighter, but what kind? Which one?
I can think of three types of figurative light in this context:
1) That which JWs refer to and they base on Pr 4:18. Light on a path... light that gets brighter. They say that their understanding of the Bible gets better with passing time. "We have new light on this point." However, Proverbs chapter 4 is not about doctrine, and there is no evidence that any doctrinal light has gotten brighter for JWs. They've changed doctrine many times, but no one can show that the new teachings are more accurate than the older ones. That would have to be proved in order for them to claim evidence that there is doctrinal light has gotten brighter.
2) The light that should emanate from those who have truth and properly represent God. Mt 5:15,16: "Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." For a while, in years past, it seemed that a light was emanating from JWdom and individual JWs as they seemed bold in their ministry and willing to take on challenges. Now they run from challenges with their tails tucked between their legs. They are doctrinally weak and they are no longer bold and courageous. So, this light has actually become far weaker.
3) The light that shines on JWdom. I can't think of any Scriptural reference to this type of figurative light, but it does exist. We can say that as we gain evidence about and learn more about some thing or entity, the light shining on it gets brighter. For example, if we are investigating a murder, at first, we might just have a dead body. There is very little light on the situation, but, as information is obtained, the light gets brighter and the situation can be seen far more clearly.
Think about if from another angle. Criminals, deceivers, cheaters, etc. love the cover of darkness; they don't like light. They don't want light shining on them. JWdom is like that. It doesn't want light; it doesn't want scrutiny; it doesn't want to be analyzed. It wants JWs and others to just accept what the leaders say and to research and study only in JW approved materials.
Before the internet, JWs could, in effect, operate in darkness (with some exceptions). Then came the great bright light of the internet. JWdom hated it and resisted it at first. It then realized that it had to selectively embrace it. The internet has seriously wounded JWdom. It has shone a great light on it that is getting brighter as more and more the failures, flaws, deceptions, weakness, etc. are seen in greater detail with the increasing light. Yes, in the last two decades or so, the light that shines on JWdom (primarily due to the internet) has become brighter and brighter.
If JWs were what they claim to be, they would love the exposure. They would love for something like the internet to come along and shine a great light on them so people can see what they really are, but they hate the exposure. Thus, there's no way they can be what they claim to be. They aren't lovers of light; they're lovers of darkness.
-
-
-
Magnum
And... if you take the 305 in "started 305 topics" and add to it 300 (because "Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years" -Ge 5:22) and then add 2 (because "God made two great lights" -Ge 1:16), you get 607BC, the year of Jerusalem's destruction. [reasoning courtesy of David Splane - master of the new "generation" doctrine]
-
14
Eye-Opener
by ElderStuckin ineach eye-opener in my awakening had nothing to do with apostates.
it was always by looking directly at the so-called spiritual food that helped me awaken.. in 2019 they changed the wording of the second of two baptismal questions which are answered aloud before the audience.
now i realize that these questions have been adjusted over the years.
-
-
Magnum
There's got to be some reason for the latest wording change (removing "spirit-directed"). Anybody know (or guess) why? I strongly feel the reason is self-serving.
-
41
KH's Still All Closed- How Bad is WT doing Financially?
by OnTheWayOut inmost churches are back to in-person worship.
not jehovah's witnesses.
is watchtower still managing to fleece the flocks as the sheeple no longer get literature, no longer go to the kh, no longer walk past the donation box?
-
-
Magnum
I think they are having high-level meetings analyzing the situation and trying to decide what to do - not because they care about the welfare of JWs, but because they care about what's best for the org.
I've been thinking lately that they might not want to reopen because they are afraid of what the scenario might be... It might look bad because fewer JWs might come back and when the ones who do come back see how empty the buildings are and how weak and puny JWdom is looking, some of them might leave and a snowball effect could start.
I think it would be less damaging for them to just go completely online. It would then be easier to hide their losses in numbers and the decline of the religion in general.
-
29
The bus stop analogy
by slimboyfat insuppose we were naïve observers, given the following data, and asked to draw a conclusion.
we see people gather at a busy bus stop several times a day.
at first one person, then another, and another, until they form a group.
-
-
Magnum
This is a subject in which I have extreme interest. I haven't had time to watch the video posted above (will watch later). But, just wanted to relate that I've had this question for decades: "Does consciousness, awareness, etc. answer solely to physics or is there something else - beyond or outside the realm of physics - going on?" In another words, will we ever be able to explain consciousness using physics and/or math?
I think about how, ultimately, biology is physics. For example, a biologist studying plant nutrition will encounter photosynthesis. Explaining photosynthesis requires an understanding of how electrons move through the cycle involved and and an accounting of energy throughout the cycle (so, it requires chemistry). Then, going deeper and understanding electrons (their behavior, nature, etc.) requires physics (the fundamental science). Photosynthesis is well understood.
I wonder whether we will ever be able to understand consciousness and explain it as we do photosynthesis. If we do ever get to that point, then there will be more evidence that we are just machines - answering to existing laws of physics as do all other machines.
I personally hope/wish there is something more and that we're not just machines.
-
37
What are your personal reasons for hating the Jehovah's Witnesses religion ?
by Rocketman123 infirst thing comes to mind is that this organization through its leaders are not witnessing the true and honest version of the gospel teachings of jesus christ .. they are subjectively teaching/preaching a tainted version made up by the top controlling men of the organization, which i'm sure is connected to the proliferation and distribution of literature which these men publish themselves.
.
when jesus said that no one knows of the time not even he, he didn't say a select few will know .. the other thing that bothers me is this organization promotes human ignorance on many levels, admonishing education or knowledge that mankind needs for its very survival... there are many other religious organizations that do this as well but the jws is just one of these organizations.
-
-
Magnum
"Hate" is not a strong enough word for me. I detest it. I served it in misery for decades. I was loyal. I defended it. It cheated me and deceived me and took my life. I was promised a reward that I should have been enjoying for, at the very least, 22 years, and, really, about 28 years now. I live an extremely difficult life now because of what it did to me. I have not even been able to post on this forum for weeks due to lack of time that results from my hard life.
I lived it 24 hours a day. There were times when I was a regular pioneer that I would go to a meeting (school & service meeting) on a Thursday night after having worked and been in the ministry all day, and go back out in the ministry at night after the meeting (witnessing at convenience stores, putting mags in phone booths, etc.) just to meet my hours quota.
I was exhausted, miserable, and poor the whole time. Yet, I could never do enough as a JW. I always heard about what I wasn't doing. I was nitpicked by self-righteous, glory-loving, dumb-ass elders. I was wrongly judged by many.
The org's publications were awful - littered with grammatical wrongs, illogical reasoning, and just plain bad writing, yet I was supposed to praise them and look to them as being ideal. I suffered through decades of boring meetings with awful teachers - many who were outright ignorant, lacking in intelligence, and embarrassing.
JWdom is self-righteous, goody-goody, deceptive, lying, selfish, self-serving, and cruel. Yeah, I HATE it, and I want to expose it for what it really it is. I want to see it go down. I want to see the eight chief buffoons suffer. I'd love to face them myself.
footnote: It's not the really the religion (or teachings and system of worship) that I hate; it's the organization and a lot (but, not all) of the individuals who make it up. I have vast experience with church-going people and various denominations (such as Baptist, Methodist, Catholic), and I vastly prefer the JW religion over such. I have two non-JW, church-going friends whom I've known for decades and with whom I've reconnected in the past few years. I've discussed my disgust with JWdom with them and they both seem to think it's some sort of victory for them as if it validates their choice of religion. One asked me to go to his church and the other asked me to come speak at his church. I'm about to have a long talk with each and relate my extreme disgust with their choice of religion, too. I'm going to let them know that if I were forced to pick a religion and my choice was theirs or JWism, there would be no question to me. I'd choose the JW religion.
These guys barely give up an hour or two on Sunday to go church and shake a few hands and then go out and eat. Their religions don't affect their lives at all. They do whatever they want whenever they want. They have no idea what's in that book that they take to church (when they choose to go). One of them didn't even know that the book of Luke is in the New Testament. I quoted him Lu 13:24. He didn't like the implication of the words and he asked me whether that was in the New Testament. I guess he was going to say it didn't apply anymore if it was not. They are both ignorant. They are both self-serving. At least JWs do practice their religion (more so in the past).
-
27
With a whimper, not a bang
by JeffT inthe thread about old timers got me thinking about trends i see with the watchtower.
i've changed my opinion about where the organization stands.
when i joined the religion in 1973 it was dynamic, even the small congregation i attended sent out three or four pioneers.
-
-
Magnum
Bill Covert: The difference was the "oracle", Fred Franz.
I 100% agree. There just hasn't been anybody to fill his shoes. It's not that he was really as smart as JWs made him out to be; he just had the right mix - some intelligence, some education, an element of mystery, an element of eccentricity, reclusiveness, etc. Also, he came along at the right time considering world events, the situation in the org, etc.
It was easier back then for one person to be really influential because the GB did not have the power it has today. It would be difficult today for one individual to promote ideas and doctrines that the other members virtually have to accept. Today, it's more rule by committee. Franz would not have been as influential had he come along now in the org because all his ideas would have to be approved, whereas, back then, his stuff was just published (maybe checked by Knorr) and the others had to accept it.
See this thread I started four years ago:
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4821431932157952/what-if-fred-franz-had-never-existed