Vanderhoven7, thanks. I truly appreciate material like this. Adding to my files. Hopefully can share with my JW relatives in the future.
TonusOH, totally agree. Great post.
Posts by Magnum
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20What are the odds that Armageddon is soooo close?
by Vanderhoven7 inwell judging from past prophetic pronouncements....go figure.
"surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of god that the lord jesus is present and has been since 1874;…" watchtower 1924 jan 1 p.5).
"the prophecy of the bible, fully supported by the physical facts in fulfillment thereof, shows that the second coming of christ dates from the fall of the year 1914.
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21
question for those who either aux pioneered pioneered
by enoughisenough inhow many of you would have spent the hours "pioneering" if it weren't for the pats on the back and being looked up to as someone special in the congregation?
i will admit that back in late 1970's i attempted to aux pioneer during a campaign because it was promoted and seemed the right thing to do,but i didn't get the hours and it was stressful trying to...and i didn't feel like a cheerful giver.
i never attempted it again.
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Magnum
I did it because I truly believed (with the exception of the nagging doubts and unanswered questions that I always had) it was right - that billions of lives were at stake and the end was imminent. It was years of excruciating misery. I slaved and suffered and sacrificed, all the while not only not getting paid, but paying (in the form of donations) my "employer". The "pats on the back" were almost insignificant compared to the gripes, misery, tolerating nutty JWs, facing guns and other opposition in the field, working awful part-time jobs to support myself, giving up education and financial opportunities, etc. If the org had been right, then what I did would have been extremely worthwhile and I'd now be glad I did it. However,... well, you know.
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UN and Governing Body and an accounting
by AnnaNana injoseph and mary were not in a spiritually adulterous relationship with the roman authorities, the "legs of iron".
joseph and mary were not perfect.
the governing body of the modern-day organization of jehovah's witnesses is not perfect.
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Magnum
But the sins of those individuals within the organization who misuse their authority or misapply the scripture does not mean Jehovah is not still using that organization.
"still using"???? I see no evidence that he ever was using the organization. It has made well-known false predictions from day one - predictions that robbed people of normal lives. It has a history of crazy writings and teachings. The preaching work has never been such that it would be fair to kill most of earth's population based on how they react to it.
It is weakening now, supposedly in the last of the last days when it should be strengthening and providing a great warning to the world. The organization is in survival mode. Its heyday is over. It is simply trying to survive. It is not giving a great witness to the world or bringing praise to its supposed god.
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Magnum
Just started watching during my lunch. Only got to see about 5 minutes. Will download so I can listen to it on the way home Friday (I work out of town). I'm PMing you because I have a question.
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22
Upbringing
by punkofnice ini was brought up as a born-in(tm) here in the uk.
it wasn't until i was 50 that the scales fell from my eyes, i woke up, got da'd from the cult and my wife was advised to leave me by the elders whom i had served with on the boe.
one of which i know wanted to schtupf her.
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Magnum
50 wasted years for me, too.... and I, too, hold resentment. In fact, a lot of those years were worse than just wasted. For example, one can lie on the couch all day and waste time just watching TV and relaxing in comfort OR he can waste time by working in misery on and investing money in a project that fails. If I'm going to waste time, I'd rather it be in a way similar to the former, however, as a fulltime JW, I wasted time in a way similar to the latter. I slaved in misery with no pay for decades, actually donating to my master the whole time.
I resent my mother (dad was non-JW) because she is still in the cult in spite of having me around to try to convince her of its wrongness. She knows my intelligence and abilities and honesty, yet she listens to Stephen Lett and not me.
I have negative feelings for all my former JW acquaintances because I think that anybody who can be a believing JW today is seriously lacking in something - intelligence, comprehension, discernment, honesty, humility, or a combination of such.
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UN and Governing Body and an accounting
by AnnaNana injoseph and mary were not in a spiritually adulterous relationship with the roman authorities, the "legs of iron".
joseph and mary were not perfect.
the governing body of the modern-day organization of jehovah's witnesses is not perfect.
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Magnum
The evidence is clear that Jehovah is leaving his name on the modern-day organization.
If the evidence is so clear, then where is it? What is it? You make such a bold statement as if the truth of it is obvious, and it is not. You mention none of that evidence that is supposedly so clear.
Actually, the opposite is clear to me - that the org is not backed by a superhuman, just being. The organization has a history literally over a hundred years long of major failed predictions, deception, corruption, looney teachings, etc.
It is an embarrassment today. The governing body members come across as clueless buffoons on broadcasts. The org is weakening. It has become cowardly, televangelist-like, shallow, dumbed down, overly concerned with money.
The preaching is weakening at a time when, according to JW theology, it should be growing and strengthening. JWs (the org as a whole and individual JWs) run from challenges and deep questions. The little bit of preaching work that is done is a faint whisper and is unclear and filled with fluff. Most humans are not aware of what the main JW beliefs are. JWs have not preached the message as it is claimed. Even back when the preaching work was far stronger than today, it was puny. The majority of JWs were not qualified to teach and preach. When I was a regular pioneer, I used to cringe when I heard other JWs witnessing in the field. It would be extremely unjust for a supreme being to destroy most of earth's population based on the puny, unclear, ineffective preaching of JWs. I find it difficult to believe that you believe that the end of the whole world is imminent and that JWs are doing a satisfactory job of warning of such. Do you really believe that JWs are like the Israelites marching around Jericho giving a great shout that everybody hears?
And, concerning the UN thing... The situation is far more serious than you make it out to be. It wasn't just "Oh, let's fill out a card so we can have access to research materials." I was a zealous regular pioneer when it happened, but was unaware of it at the time. However, at the time, I was aware that the org published pro-UN material in at least one of the mags. My wife and my sister and I all read the articles and were baffled. We discussed our being baffled at the time. We thought the UN was part of Satan's political system, and the org was publishing material putting it in a favorable light??? Now that I know what happened behind the scenes, it all makes sense. In order to be an NGO, the org had to promote the UN. To this day, my wife and I remember those articles and are pissed off about the situation.
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The problem of questioning or the lack of politeness
by joao ina forum is a place where people should be able to talk to each other, to question, to have meaningful interactions with others in a polite and educated way, to contribute for the growth of one another.
it seems that, here, there are some people who think that the others know nothing.
they have all the facts, all the truth and have the disrespectful attitude of ignoring concrete and respectful questions.
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Magnum
Don't leave. I've enjoyed your posts. Because of my circumstances, I haven't been able to be as active on this forum as I once was, but, I hope to change that in the future. This forum has been greatly informative to me and has benefitted me greatly.
There are a lot of things I'd like to discuss here and get different perspectives on. I'm in a position now where I don't know what to believe. Is there some kind of higher being? If so, does he even care about us here on earth? Unlike many on this forum, I have not even ruled out the Bible*, yet (though I see a lot of issues/problems with it). I have a background in science and am even looking to science for answers (quantum field theory is really interesting).
I eagerly watch JWdom, and I think that in the near future we're going to see it begin to decline a lot more than it already is declining.
Again, please hang around. I've enjoyed your presence here. I think maybe things are a little stagnant now (as DOC mentioned recently), but I think the winds could whip up again soon. I'd love to have you around for your perspective on that potential situation and for other topics I'd like to start in the future.
*There are some here who refer to the Bible as being, for example, a primitive document written by a bunch of old goat-herders, and there are some who believe it is inspired by a higher being. I am open to both positions and wish I had more time to do study/analysis and come to a firm conclusion, myself.
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Brother Ted, Theocratic Economics and Card Run-outs
by Duncan indear all,.
i nearly met up with brother ted f. the other day.
i say nearly, because i arrived round my mothers house just a few minutes after he left.
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Magnum
Wow, enjoyed that 20yr old post. I wondered about animal predation from before I was baptized as a JW. I so agree about, for example, lions. Their whole bodies and even metabolisms are geared for catching and eating other animals. Even though I. like The Old Hippie, wanted the JW paradise so much, I always had nagging doubts. There were so many things that just didn't fit - like, for example, even if we were perfect, our teeth would still wear out. You mentioned Jehovah's "special magic." I guess he would have had to use it on our teeth in the new world.
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New and improved?
by tenyearsafter ini have a family member who had been df'ed for 15 years or so...recently they reinstated as a jw.
when i asked what motivated them to make that decision, the response was to be able to see family and old friends.
they insisted that things were different now.
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Magnum
The organization has changed drastically in the last few years... but NOT because of love. It seems to actually be more conniving, evil, and deceptive now than it was before. It changed because it had to. It is a dying cult, and it changed to try to prolong its life - to try to attract new members and retain current members.
It had to become far less analytical and doctrinal and to dumb down its literature because the internet exposed flaws in its doctrine. It can no longer be analytical and doctrinal because if it tries to, it will get shredded to pieces on the internet and exposed. It has to play it safe now. A few years ago, there was suspicion on this site that the organization had hired a PR firm to help it change its image. It produced a website, videos, & music (pop-like music). It began to have broadcast programs like those of televangelist religions it used to ridicule.
When I was a JW, I worked my ass off and slaved in misery for the organization. I don't think JWs do that anymore. The whole realm of JWdom is softer now. For example, back in my days as a JW, the organization and individual JWs were bold. Now, JWs run from questions and challenges and are cowardly.
So, the religion is still a harmful, deceptive cult. What some perceive to be its becoming more loving is actually a weakening.
P.S. They started to do Zoom meetings due to the virus, but, the organization is trying to get JWs to meet back in person now. And, concerning getting time in the ministry, it does seem that it's easier for JWs now. The pandemic changed that. I don't think JWs can or will ever go back to being the way they were in the ministry in the old days. The ministry was weakening even before the pandemic. That's because JWs face more obstacles in the ministry as time progresses. The internet has exposed the failed predictions, crazy past, looney teachings, corruption, etc. People are less tolerant of them, they have cameras everywhere, etc.
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Meet Olivia Newton-John's Grandfather, Max Born
by DNCall inolivia's maternal grandfather fled htiler's germany in 1933. he was one of the founders of quantum mechanics and a close friend of albert einstein.
it was max born who famously wrote: "the belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it, seems to me the deepest root of all that is evil in the world.
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Magnum
That reminds me of an incident that occurred about 40 years ago. I was taking a university course in materials science as part of an engineering curriculum. The beginning of the course included some quantum mechanics. The professor was talking about Max Born and he asked "do you know who his granddaughter is?" In a big auditorium, I shouted "Olivia Newton-John." I'll never forget the look on his face; he looked at me in shock that I knew that.
I was a collector of math and science books and had read that in several books (no internet back then).