Posts by Magnum

55

If JW is not the truth, then what is the true religion?

by TxNVSue2023 in

even though i'm disfellowshiped ( & i belive wrongfully so).

i still belive this is the truth.

i have been d'f for about 8 months now and working on reinstatement.

Magnum

You assume there is a true religion. In order for your question to be valid, you must first prove there is a true religion.

You state that one of the reasons you believe JWs have the truth is that "the world is getting more and more wicked." How do you know that? Please prove it. What are your reasons/statistics/etc.? Yeah, for example, crime is getting worse in California and retailers are closing stores because of rampant theft, but it's not because the people are becoming more wicked; it's because the law isn't being enforced. Human nature has been the same for millenia.

You state that no other religion that you've seen has the fruits of truth. So, you're saying you see the fruits of truth in JWdom? I see that most JWs cheat on their field service reports. I see a religion that claims that the whole world is about to be violently destroyed, yet does almost nothing to give fair warning. Do you really think that the almost non-existent, faint, unclear, puny, cowardly, inefficient preaching work of JWs provides a sufficient warning to an entire world about to be destroyed? I see a religion based on deception... one that runs from fact and truth... one that claims to love light but that wants to operate in the dark so it won't be exposed. I see a religion that has a history over 100 years long of major failed predictions, deception, corruption, looney teachings and writings, etc.

45

Anthony Morris III demoted to Great Crowd!

by Vanderhoven7 in

well, that is my prediction for 2024 anyway!

hey, if watchtower can speculate..... https://youtu.be/dn8askhhwkw.

Magnum

I agree with FFGhost, Blondie, Fisherman, & ThomasMore. Once anointed, always anointed. One cannot be demoted to great crowd. If one loses anointing, it's the lake of fire, Gehenna, eternal death. Even one's being disfellowshipped does not necessarily mean he has lost anointed status. Org has referred to passage that says something like 'you judge those on the inside, whereas God judges those on the outside.' So, elders make judgements about those in the congregation (on the inside), whereas God judges those outside the congregation (disfellowhipped, etc.) (whether worthy of life or death and whether anointed or not). Congregation elders cannot make determinations as to who is anointed, but they can disfellowship. So, even if Tony was disfellowshipped, he would not necessarily lose his supposed anointing.

But, as Fisherman wrote, even though Tony would not lose his anointing due to being removed from the GB (or even being disfellowshipped), he would lose his status as being part of the F&DS. It used to be that all anointed made up the F&DS, but the GB implemented a coup a few years ago and took the F&DS status all for themselves - casting away the rest of the anointed without even consulting them even though they should have been consulted because they had just as much say-so as the GB did according to JW theology of the time.

18

How did you pass the time when the Kingdom Hall meetings became boring and repetitive/

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

another boring and repetitive ''watchtower study.

'' all the articles are about the ''faithful and discreet slave.''.

for whatever reason, you tolerate this for years.

Magnum

Fisherman: If you were an elder, you know that seeming sincerity may disguise investigation

Yeah, I get your point. However, this was a really good guy. At one point, he even said something to me about resigning as an elder, but he said it would shock his family. I don't know for sure whether his issue was with the organization as a whole or just the situation in my area. In my area, almost all elders were lacking in knowledge, were bad teachers, etc.

This was about seven years ago... maybe more than that. I have thought about this guy a lot and wondered what he's doing now.

slimboyfat, dang, you seem to be really well-read. I am curious about your reading habits. Might have to start a new topic one day and ask you about them. I'm fascinated by the fact that a 22-year-old would be interested in and even aware of such.

18

How did you pass the time when the Kingdom Hall meetings became boring and repetitive/

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

another boring and repetitive ''watchtower study.

'' all the articles are about the ''faithful and discreet slave.''.

for whatever reason, you tolerate this for years.

Magnum

I hated wasting time at boring meetings and was still a believer at the time, so I read the Bible and kept notebooks of questions, things that didn't make sense, good points, etc. I also read a book on Koine Greek as I was learning it at the time.

Towards the end of my time as a JW, I had resigned as an elder and there was an elder (40ish) who had recently moved into our area. He was actually a more normal type person. I could actually gripe to him and he sometimes agreed with me. One time, I ran into him at a grocery store where I was doing some work. I told him in a very sincere, but strong tone "something is wrong; something is wrong" (I was referring to the religion, the organization, etc.) He looked at me with a serious look on his face and walked away as if he was really thinking about what I said. He got halfway to his car in the parking lot and looked back over his shoulder at me and paused for a bit before leaving. I think what I said really affected him. He was far more intelligent and reasonable than the other elders in my area.

Anyway, this guy kind of watched me because I think he connected with me and recognized that I, too, was more intelligent, reasonable, analytical, etc. than other JWs in the area. He seemed to be curious about me. He came over to me after a Sunday meeting and asked me what I was reading. I told him I was studying Greek. He looked interested. He asked in a sincere way - not a way indicating he was trying to correct me.

36

We are now 23 Years past Armageddon as the GB stated

by JohnTron7 in

so the end was going to come by 2000 as documented in the magazines back in the late 80's early 90's.. so how did they get the time off so badly ( over two decades and still nothing) since the gb is jehovah's earthly mouthpiece right ?

.

Magnum

baldeagle, thanks, I was not aware of that mag and am definitely saving that reference for future use.

Here's another that a lot of JWs and exJWs are not familiar with, but it's in black and white:

Shortly, within our twentieth century, the “battle in the day of Jehovah” will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. - "The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah" - How? page 261 (published 1971 (I think))

53

What`s the reason some of you think JW`s are in decline ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

from what i can see no such thing is happening.i became a jw in 1960 and remained for about 30 years and the numbers of active jw`s today in the world are far greater than they were back then.. and here in australia the numbers are much higher than they were back then .. so i don`t see that their in decline or have any worries about losing support .. don`t the numbers speak for themselves ?.

is it just wishful thinking on your part ?.

Magnum

I agree with nicolaou. The religion that I once loved and served has declined and is declining. It truly is not the same religion it was a few decades ago. My now-deceased JW grandfather would be shocked to see what the religion is now.

It used to appeal to intelligent, thinking, reasonable, stable, successful, discerning people, but not anymore. Just in my area alone, I know of eight engineers (5 electrical, 1 mechanical, 1 chemical, 1 civil), two dentists, an attorney, two medical doctors, a college professor with a doctorate, a schoolteacher with a bachelor's degree in physics, and a number of successful business people who became JWs back in the 80's. Also, in the 70's, a number of really smart ex-hippie types came in - the kind who think deeply.

That does not happen anymore. JWdom no longer appeals to such ones. The internet has killed "the truth." If JWdom were what it claims to be, the internet would have been a great asset - a great tool for the advancement of "the truth." Ironically, JWs claim to be lovers of light, whereas the org actually wants/loves darkness. It doesn't want the great light the internet brought. It can't stand up to scrutiny under the light of the internet. It wants to operate under the cover of darkness.

The org preferred the time when information was not readily available or easily attainable. It used to write about how the Catholic Church didn't want the Bible to be available in the everyday languages of the people so that they could be more easily controlled, wouldn't be able to recognize wrongs in doctrine, etc. Well, similarly, the JW leaders don't want JWs and others to be well-informed. They don't want their wrongs, deceptions, failed predictions, outright corruption, looney teachings, etc. of the past to be known. The org can no longer be deeply analytical or doctrinal in its writings because it knows it can be easily challenged now. It has to play it safe now. It is now more of a social or lifestyle religion. The parts of the religion that appealed to the intelligent types of people mentioned earlier are gone.

It really doesn't matter to me what kind of numbers the org reports. The whole "feel" of the situation is different now. The JW "preaching" work is now a lame, puny, faint whisper. So, the whole damned world is about to be violently destroyed? If so, where is the clear, bold warning? Where are the Israelites marching around Jericho giving a great, clear, bold shout?

JWdom is a mere shadow of its former self. It is a sinking ship. Its glory days are over. Its heyday is over. It is flapping at the water trying to keep from drowning. It is no longer proactive; it is now just reactive. It will never again regain the momentum it had in, for example, the 80's. In this 'final hour of the last days' when it should be growing and strengthening, it is weakening. Its presence and appearance and countenance and actions are indicative of sickness.

So, yeah, it's declining.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Magnum

Gorb: It is not about the details, but the fact that COJ had a mindset of his own, and spoke out against an awfull system. That's what I respect so much.

I feel the same way. Although I am interested in the specifics of his research, I really appreciate the fact that he was willing to think independently and honestly seek truth. I like the fact that he presented his research and conclusions to the org and stood his ground and didn't cower to the JW leadership.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Magnum

slimboyfat, excellent synopsis!

****************

Las Malvinas son Argentinas: What stood out to me in reading Jonsson’s original treatise was not necessarily that he was trying to refute WT, but as a loyal member he was trying to correct information he found to be incorrect and misleading. It sounded like he was genuinely concerned and felt WT could benefit from such information.

That's the exact impression I've always had.

****************

It seems to me that the GB members and other higher-ups back in the time of the Jonsson correspondence were at least somewhat able to comprehend Jonsson's work; some of them were at least somewhat scholarly (like Schroeder and Fred & Ray Franz). However, I don't think any of the current GB have the mental equipment to address the issue.

****************

Jonsson's death is a great loss. He wasn't the typical JW robot drone. He was a truthseeker. He was honest. He was intelligent. Most of his type have left JW land. It's getting to be more and more such that the only ones remaining therein are the ones who lack intellect and/or honesty and/or strength of character.

17

Can watchtower really continue with cart preaching?

by Hellothere in

can watchtower really continue with cart preaching?

it has become like zoom.

we're people attending zoom not wanting attend halls.

Magnum

This religion has become a joke

And, I so agree. I was a zealous, 100% believing reg pio back in the 80's & 90's. I sweated, sacrificed, hurt, was eaten up by bugs, etc. in the ministry. I walked neighborhoods by myself in 104degF heat and high humidity. I faced guns four times (might have been more; I just remember the four explicitly). I had doors slammed in my face. I was cussed out and yelled at and ridiculed. I was bold and I faced it all with strength and courage.

JWs today are wimps. How possibly could they really believe that the whole damned world is about to experience a great cataclysm during which most humans will be destroyed and think they're providing a sufficient warning? There's no way what they're doing could be classified as being a sufficient warning. There's no way a just God could judge people based on the way they react to the almost nonexistent warning work of JWs. If JWs are really what they claim to be, they should be like the Israelites marching around Jericho on the seventh day - giving a great shout.

34

Betty Georges - The Female Helper to the Governing Body

by MillennialDawn in

jw
friends

betty georges is listed as a helper to the governing body service committee, according to this page on the website: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/governing-body-jw-helpers/.

anybody know anything about her?.

Magnum

Not a "her". Betty is a male. Same with Jody (mentioned right above).