I miss him, too; been noticing his absence lately. His was one of the names I always looked for when I was in "lurkdom".
Posts by Magnum
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19FLIPPER WE MISS YOU!
by clarity inanybody hear from flipper.....haven't seen him on here lately!.
it is just not the same without him & i really miss his presence.. where is our friend ....anyone?.
clarity.
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When do Auxilliary CO's go out in field service?
by Quarterback ini moved into this new cong for over two years now.
we have this younger couple that are part time co's.
i know that they would be busy serving a cong when they are asked to do so, but that is not too often.
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Magnum
JustVisting - I'll think about what you said. Maybe I will be able to let it go one day. But it's very difficult. Consider this example. Suppose you called the appliance repair man out to your house on a Saturday morn outside his normal working hours because your refrigerator wasn't working. He got up and made a special trip to your house 20 minutes away. However, when he arrived, you found out you had just accidentally unplugged the frig. I'm sure you would feel really bad about inconveniencing him and would certainly pay him for his trip out.
Now think about that - you would (I hope) feel bad about the fact you inconvenienced him for 40 minutes on a Saturday morn. Well, I was inconvenienced every Saturday morn - not just 40 minutes, but 4 hours at least - every Saturday morn of every week for at least three decades. And not just Saturday morns, but most other morns of the week and lots of afternoons. And I got no compensation; I actually paid a whole lot of money to be inconvenienced.
Also, consider this. suppose you worked really hard at a really hard job for thirty years and were supposed to have a big retirement and reward at the end. Well, what if at the end you found out that you wouldn't be receiving anything - nothing for all the decades of sweat, misery, frustration, etc. - NOTHING. Not so much as a thanks. And the company wouldn't even hear your complaint. And the way you found out was almost trivial - just a couple of sentences in a company newsletter - as if it was trivial.
Yeah, it's gonna be a while before I can let it go, but maybe I should try. As I said, I'll think about it.
For all I know, your situation might be like mine - similar experiences. Maybe you're just better than I am.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Baptism Fraud
by Watchtower-Free ini found this on youtube .........................emotional video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtxasmyxtyq.
"in the summer of 1946, i was baptized at the international convention in cleveland, ohio.
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Magnum
So are there are any real legal ramifications of the 1985 baptismal question wording change (see Watchtower-Free's post above)? I think in 1985 the part about God's sprit-directed organization was added. Can anybody explain? How would the situation be different for somebody baptized in 1986 versus somebody baptized in 1984?
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When do Auxilliary CO's go out in field service?
by Quarterback ini moved into this new cong for over two years now.
we have this younger couple that are part time co's.
i know that they would be busy serving a cong when they are asked to do so, but that is not too often.
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Magnum
In fairness , there are some pioneers who are pretty anti-social - they only like to work with their pioneer partner or husband / wife and have enough route calls and studies to basically do very little ministry with the groups.
But according to what I've been instructed by the org many times over many years, it shouldn't be that way. They should be visible and available to take the lead and help others. When I was a reg pio (and wife, too), I asked a CO if she and I could work by ourselves some of the time. He told me no - that we needed to be visible and available at the cong meetings for service.
I don't think what you said is "in fairness". I don't excuse those people at all because I was about as anti-social as one could get in that, although I truly believed in the ministry and was extremely zealous and self-sacrificing, I didn't want to be out at all. I dreaded going out. But I did often, almost daily, sometimes all day. And when I did go, I would have MUCH preferred to only work with my wife. But we split up and worked with nuts & slackers & weaklings all the time.
I don't excuse them one bit.
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When do Auxilliary CO's go out in field service?
by Quarterback ini moved into this new cong for over two years now.
we have this younger couple that are part time co's.
i know that they would be busy serving a cong when they are asked to do so, but that is not too often.
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Magnum
It's not done. I & my wife have been sickened by it for years. She has often made the statement that the number of hours reported in the year-end report should probably be cut in half, and that's being generous. Her own regular pio grandmother was a joke to the family; she would go off in her bedroom and write letters for a few minutes and come back a short while later and claim she had her time in for the day.
I saw that kind of stuff often. Wow - the stories I could tell. It burned me up. For one reason, I always had to take up the phantoms' slack - handling entire congregations and (literally) entire cities because the phantoms were off doing whatever phantoms do. I'm talking about reg pios, elders, ms's. Heck, we even had CO's who were phantoms in the sense that they wasted time and tried to do as little real work in the ministry as possible.
There was one who would, when his group had barely started working, tell the group "hey, I was at sister Green's house and I knocked over her expensive antique vase". Always, someone would ask "did it break?" He woud then say "did I hear break", and off they'd go to sip coffee and chew do-nuts. I heard one elder say something kind of negative about it because he was in this CO's group, and they drove 30 minutes to a rural territory, worked a few doors (from the car), and then went all the way back to town for the break. Then after the long break, there was time for one lame, dud return visit, and then it was time to meet for lunch.
If these guys love the ministry as much as they claim - if they really think it's as critical & life-saving as they claim - why do not their actions show it? What they love is the title and the glory. "They love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues." - Mt 23:6 (NIV)
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Cosmos: a spacetime odyssey tonight
by yalbmert99 incosmos: a spacetime odyssey : with neil degrasse tyson.
remake of carl sagan's cosmos a personnal voyage of 1980. presented by fox sun 9/8c and national geographic mon 10/9c.
http://www.cosmosontv.com/.
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Magnum
Didn't know it was on yet; want to see it.
When you get a chance watch the YouTube video "NOVA: The Fabric of the Cosmos - What is Space?" It's fascinating. I used to gripe about the Live Forever book's saying that before creating, Jah was all alone in universal space. I always said that was inaccurate because if there is a creator, then space itself is part of his creation. Space is not nothing; it's something. So, those who believe in a creator should say that Jah was all alone - not all alone in empty space. Watch the video.
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How Many Circuit Overseers And District Overseers Really Believe The Governing Body Is Really The Faithful and Discreet Slave and That The Watchtower Is God's Earthly Organization?
by frankiespeakin ini'm thinking around 20% have serious doubts and 99% have some doubts but keep them from becoming conscious to avoid cognitive dissonance.
this is becoming increasingly harder to do over the fact that the governing body are showing their true colors and the contridictions are so great..
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Magnum
kneehighmiah - I'm glad to hear that others have noticed that about MTS. Your words ring so true. MTS does seem to a large degree to be a Pharisee training course. I agree with you that not all students come out as Pharisees, but most I've seen have.
Mts does nothing to make its graduates more like Jesus. They often come back feeling better than all the average brothers.
I've noticed the same thing. I remember a little over fifteen years ago when we had an MTS grad in our area. He invited one of his classmates to our cong to give a public talk. It was disgusting. I remember driving into the Kingdom Hall parking lot and seeing a shiny black luxury car parked diagonally taking up two spaces (I guess so nobody would ding the doors). It was parked close to the entrance taking up prime spaces. Knowing he was coming, I figured it must be his car (I was right). When I got inside, I saw him. He was dressed in cutting edge fashion - very flashy. His talk was very flashy and showy - not with a genuine, serious, loving tone. It seemed to be more entertaining than spiritual. The whole atmosphere was disgusting. He was showered with attention like he was a celebrity and he carried himself as a celebrity.
I respect people who have the ability to recognize what you said about MTS. To me people like that are discerning & genuine & inclined towards righteousness. In the vision of Ezekiel chap 9, the man with the inkhorn was told to mark those who were upset over the detestable things done among God's people. If JWs are God's people, then I think that might have an application among them today. Maybe those who recognize wrongs such as behaving like Pharisees, idolatry within the org, wrong teachings, etc. are marked in a good way. Maybe there's going to be a major sifting/cleansing among JWs. That's just conjecture. Right now I'm seeking and searching and trying to find answers. I really don't know what to belieive right now.
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How Many Circuit Overseers And District Overseers Really Believe The Governing Body Is Really The Faithful and Discreet Slave and That The Watchtower Is God's Earthly Organization?
by frankiespeakin ini'm thinking around 20% have serious doubts and 99% have some doubts but keep them from becoming conscious to avoid cognitive dissonance.
this is becoming increasingly harder to do over the fact that the governing body are showing their true colors and the contridictions are so great..
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Magnum
Apognophos - I understand what you're saying and don't entirely disagree. I do appreciate your input and will consider more what you said. Some may be as you described, but I still feel the same way. The batch I've been exposed to lately is not as you describe. I really don't mean to be disrespectful to them; but they are self-righteous punks to me. They don't have enough knowledge, experience, etc. to be carrying themselves the way they do. One is a moody, cocky, arrogant, Bethel & GB idolizing brat. He is clueless about org history, evolution/creation, basic biology, etc., yet will angrily & unreasonably defend the org and JW theology in his state of absolute ignorance. When I bring up questions that should make anybody think - questions that lead to answers outside his JW comfort zone, he gets a look of anger on his face. One of his fellow elders said he "hates the ministry". Yet he loves RBC work, Bethel work, etc. He idolizes COs and even city overseers.
Another is such a sickening goody-goody that I literally can't watch him or listen to him at meetings. Oh, everything is so wonderul to him! He's just such an encouraging young elder! "Oh, hello, my brother, how are you this evening?" He's just embarassing. He's not real. The world is not that good to me; it's filled with horror and suffering. People are still being tortured (burned alive, boiled alive, stoned, crucified, etc.). Animals are being tortured (cats boiled alive, coons skinned alive, cats put in microwave ovens alive, etc.). These young punks just walk around with those glued-on smiles when they should be crying. The brother just mentioned, too, gives indication of not wanting to do the "dirty work", the ministry, but he loves all the glory stuff.
These guys are idolaters whether they realize it or not. If there is a creator and he is using the JW organization, then that org is at best a tool. It's something that should aid in the worship of the creator. However, to many, like these punks, the org itself has become the main focus - an object of worship - an idol. During CO visit weeks, these guys are only thinking about that man - the CO; their minds aren't on Jah that week. They're wanting to please that man and score good points with him. It sickens me. I refused to even go to meetings during the last CO visit because it so nauseates me.
To me a punk is someone who puts himself in a situation that he's not qualified for and thinks he's a big shot. That describes these guys that I've been exposed to. If I come across some genuine ones who are not org idolaters, who really seem to love God & fellow creature and are really concerned about the plight of their fellow creatures and not climing the glory ladder, I'll acknowledge it because I am fair, just, and honest.
I'm also open to the possibility that I might be at least partially wrong, so again, I will consider your point of view.
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CO's & DO's age 70+ to be laid off on 9/1/14
by williamhconley inin a private conversation with a c.o.
friend from north carolina, he told me yesterday that they just got a letter that all traveling overseers (do's & co's) age 70 & up are going to be laid off on 09/01/2014.
they will be asssigned to local congregations and further details are pending.. .
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Magnum
yes, but guess what, we got a letter to all bodies of elders recently which forbids the giving of cash 'gifts' to circuit overseers. The expenses they accrue should, more or less, tally with receipts they give to the bro who takes care of the money, which in my cong is me. So, unless individuals are giving them cash 'gifts', then they will find, I would imagine, that they won't get the 'gifts' they used to in the past. I never even knew this went on in some parts of the world, and even now, it seems really weird to me that people would do this. Could really cause problems with impartiality, right?
I thought it was the individuals who were giving them cash gifts. I've never known congregations to give cash gifts; all those I've been assoiciated with have only reimbursed according to receipts. However, I've seen green handshakes from individuals for decades.
What exactly does the letter forbid - giving from congregations funds? Giving by individual elders? Does it say that individual publshers should not give COs cash?
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How Many Circuit Overseers And District Overseers Really Believe The Governing Body Is Really The Faithful and Discreet Slave and That The Watchtower Is God's Earthly Organization?
by frankiespeakin ini'm thinking around 20% have serious doubts and 99% have some doubts but keep them from becoming conscious to avoid cognitive dissonance.
this is becoming increasingly harder to do over the fact that the governing body are showing their true colors and the contridictions are so great..
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Magnum
This callous treatment of COs, Dos and Bethelites after years of slave labor is bound to have an effect on reruitement of new and younger volunteers to replace them.
I think the situation in general with JWs today is having an effect on their recruiting/retaining quality young ones. However, among the younger brothers already in, there are many who have tasted power and glory being elders. Once they get to that point, unless they're really genuine & sincere & caring & seeking truth (most aren't), they're hooked. I've been observing the young punk, brown-nosing, big-shot, wannabe company men lately, and believe me, they're only looking at the immediate reward. They crave the glory and power. They're high on it. They're not looking 35 years down the road. Heck, they're telling everybody the sky is falling any hour now. They couldn't care less about the long-term because they're so focused on the glory they get now. Most of them would be nobodies outside the realm of JWdom, but inside, they're adored. They can wear their suits and strutt their perceived stuff. I recently saw one in trainiing for circuit work; it was vomit-provoking. And his little punk wife was sitting in the audience next to the CO and his wife. I was thinking how that little clueless girl wouldn't stand a chance defending JWs against me if I was sloppy drunk & semi-comatose.
As I mentioned in an earlier post or two, the JW realm is far different now from what is was when some of us came in. The amount of info exposing the holes in JW theology, the crazyiness and outright deception in their history, etc. is so vast and easilty accessible now that I think most people with good common sense and decent education (whether schooled or self-educated) would hesitate to become JWs in the first place. If these young punks have advanced to the point of being elders and have received glory and adulation, then they've probably swallowed the hook.