Magnum

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Posts by Magnum

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  40

  The Reasoning Book

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.

  many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.

  it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.

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  Magnum

  Ron.W., I used to well know the differences in the '85 & '89 versions and had them marked. I work out of town during the week, so I don't have access to my copies now, but I'm curious to go and look and refresh my memory.
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  40

  The Reasoning Book

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.

  many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.

  it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.

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  Magnum

  careful, so, it really is out of print? I was wondering.

  Oh, and I well remember the old Make Sure of All Things book, also, Bible Topics for Discussion, which was kind of simplified outline.
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  40

  The Reasoning Book

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.

  many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.

  it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.

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  Magnum

  The book Reasoning from the Scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every Service Meeting, and every Theocratic Ministry School meeting thereafter. Many JWs had copies bound together with their Bibles. It was huge in JW land back then.

  At that time, with the Reasoning book, JWs were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.

  Compare the situation today with that of the 80's. Now JWs run from challenges and deeper questions, can't defend their doctrine, simply point to their website or play a video, etc. They no longer seem to want to reason from the Scriptures or, for that matter, reason at all.
  

  So, what is the status of the Reasoning book now? Is it still published? Do JWs still use it? If it has been abandoned, then I take that as an indication that at least some of the higher-ups know that JW doctrine/policy is flawed.
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  101

  The Next Big Thing In WT World

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  things got a bit lively after the agm leaks in october.

  there was a lot of discussion going on on this board for a few months.

  now that all the leaks have been more or less confirmed as policy, and we've had lively discussions at length concerning the changes, things seem to have slowed down here.. a few suggestions have been raised as to what might be the next changes, such as women being allowed to wear slacks (in the usa, anyway), decoupling from 1914 as an anchoring date and others.. so, what changes do you think will be announced this year?.

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  Magnum

  Obrien: Bottom line is about survival in a rapidly changing environment.

  That's it. The org is simply in survival mode - trying to keep the ship from sinking. Gone are the days of deeper doctrinal analysis and deeper study on prophecy. Gone are the days when the org was proactive; now it is simply reacting to a situation in which it knows it has been defeated and can no longer be bold and confident. It is trying desperately to retain what it has.

  It has become and is still becoming more mainstream with a website, pop-like music videos, a talk show, shiny and glittery televangelist-like broadcasting, etc.
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  34

  JW profit from disasters

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some time back i questioned about jw making money from doing relief work for disasters.

  i found this story on reddit and also noted some of the replies.

  it makes me wonder how many would have left their own jobs and paid their way, giving free labor and some supplying free materials if they had know what was going on behind the scenes.

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  Magnum

  Freeorange, Your story rings very true to me.

  I excused many, many things over the years, too. It infuriates me now to think all the time, money, effort, etc. I gave to that cult.
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  48

  Is Jesus God?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know that a lot of historical names have claimed to be a god.

  but, jesus arguably claimed to be god.

  scripture says he's the creator.

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  Magnum

  It's quite obvious to me that Jesus was/is a unique individual - separate from God. The bulk of the evidence in the NT indicates that.

  Here is a passage about the identity of Jesus:

  Jesus came into the country of Caesarea Philippi. He asked His followers, “Who do people say that I, the Son of Man, am?” They said, “Some say You are John the Baptist and some say Elijah and others say Jeremiah or one of the early preachers.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him, “Simon, son of Jonah, you are happy because you did not learn this from man. My Father in heaven has shown you this. -Mt 16:13-17

  Had Jesus been God, this would have been the perfect opportunity for him, the great teacher, to clear up any confusion. Whom or what did he say he was? Well, Peter said “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And did Jesus correct him? No; he basically said "you're right." Jesus was the son of God, not God. How can that be any clearer?

  Notice, as a secondary point, that Jesus referred to God as "My Father", indicating two distinct beings. He also referred to his father as being "in heaven" while he was on earth - again, indicating two distinct, separate individuals.

  I think also of Jesus' death when he was hanging on the torture implement. As recorded at Mt 27:46, he cried out in fervent prayer. If he was God, to whom was he praying.

  I could go on and on with such reasoning.

  There seem to be a handful of verses that one might use to show the Jesus was/is God. However, the overwhelming bulk of the evidence, to me, shows that he wasn't/isn't. Therefore, logically, I attempt to explain those verses in the light of the bulk of the evidence.
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  34

  JW profit from disasters

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some time back i questioned about jw making money from doing relief work for disasters.

  i found this story on reddit and also noted some of the replies.

  it makes me wonder how many would have left their own jobs and paid their way, giving free labor and some supplying free materials if they had know what was going on behind the scenes.

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  Magnum

  Drearyweather,

  See my previous post on this thread. Many groups other than the JW organization make big profits on disaster relief.

  The org profits not only by receiving insurance checks for free labor and marking up materials, but by donations sent in by individual JWs. Here in the U.S., JWs are instructed to make donations without specifying that they are for disaster relief because the org wants to use the money for its own interests, not for helping disaster victims.

  I'd like to know who paid for the materials in India. I once saw a warehouse full of materials that the JW org was supposedly donating to disaster relief. Every bit of it was donated by individual JWs - not the org.
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  21

  Christians Encouraged to Read 'Pagan' Works

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  clement of alexandria.

  the stromata, or miscellanies.

  book vi.

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  Magnum

  Interesting! Just want to say that I enjoy and save your posts like this and they whet my appetite to know more. Trying to find a way to slow down in work some. If I can, I'd love to spend time exploring topics like the ones you post.

  The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know. One of my all-time favorite quotes is "An educated man is one who is aware of what he does not know." I guess, then, I'm getting to be really educated; posts like this help me realize how little I know.
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  15

  The New Busy Work

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for a hundred years the slaves were kept from having the time and energy to question anything and associate anywhere where they might be exposed to alternative views by having to keep up the busy work of going door to door.

  that avenue is drying up.

  and policy is changing.. the wt needs new busy work to keep the sheep engaged without thinking.. the wt fancies itself as an up and coming movie studio.

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  Magnum

  For a hundred years the slaves were kept from having the time and energy to question anything and associate anywhere where they might be exposed to alternative views by having to keep up the busy work of going door to door. That avenue is drying up.

  Yes, there's not busy work like there used to be. Just consider the mags. We used to have four 32pg mags per month we were supposed to read in addition to all the other stuff to read and the other JW hamster wheel activities; now JWs almost almost don't have anything to read, the preaching work is lame, etc.

  However, I think there's a new breed of JWs now who don't need busy work to keep them from being exposed to the truth about "the truth." JWs in the old days used to be more studious and analytical and deep-thinking. This new group just seems to be GB idolizers who follow the GB no matter what and don't think/question/analyze. So, again, I don't really think the org needs the busy work now to protect itself as it did in decades past. The JWs now are just mostly blind culties.
  
  
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  28

  Waiting On Jehovah First Mentioned?

  by Ron.W. in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  yes, waiting on jehovah for him to handle a problem/ doctrine etc.. when did the jw's first start saying that?

  they've been saying it as long as i can remember.. what scriptures do they trot out to back that teaching up?

  ?.

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  Magnum

  I have no issue with the concept of having to wait for something that is coming, but I do have an issue with waiting for something that never comes.

  JWs were told decades ago to wait on the Jehovah train and many did, all the while enduring great hardship. The train never came; it was supposed to have arrived decades ago. If it's still coming, the train company needs to be held accountable for false information that drastically negatively affected lives.