Posts by Magnum

23

How will history treat Judge Rutherford?

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones writes:.

how will history treat joseph rutherford?.

like ben gorden has said, it would depend on who’s looking back.

Magnum

Don't know the answer to your question, but thanks for the post. Great material; I'm saving it for my files.

slimboyfat makes an interesting point. I think the answer to his question is that JWs are just so insignificant. Mormondom may be small like JWdom, but it is more interesting to the public because some Mormons are well-known. There are well-known politicians, athletes, entertainers, etc. who are Mormons. They have a university. They don't encourage the rank and file to simply be tradesmen or janitors. They simply are more interesting. Can you imagine a university in JW Land?

JWs are legends in their own minds. They think this new preaching method (listening, showing love, not having a rehearsed sermon) is so wonderful. Well, by far, most people couldn't care less about them and don't want to have conversations with them. They are simply viewed as oddball nuisances. I just don't think their is enough interest by the public to move anybody to spend time, effort, etc. producing a bio of Rutherford.

Edit: I was just thinking. I guess there are/were some well-known JWs, too (Prince, Michael Jackson, etc.), but maybe the public wasn't aware that they were JWs? I don't know. I still just think that Mormondom is more mainstream because of such people as Mitt Romney and because of the university (Brigham Young University).

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

Magnum

It is confusing and unclear now. I used to call myself an expert on JWism, but no more. I wouldn't even try to keep up with it and waste brain space anymore. I would no longer know which types and antitypes they still consider to be valid, what the locusts represent, the meaning of Eze 9:4, what parts of the Revelation Climax book they still consider to be valid, etc.

I, too, am curious about what they now say about the hailstone message, though.

21

Field Service

by Ding in

for those who are still attending meetings, what is happening at your congregation regarding field service now that reporting of hours is no longer required?.

are the elders pushing for people to go out in service anyway?.

what is the response?.

Magnum

Jeffro: That [the PR firm thing] certainly seems to be the case.

Jeffro, do you remember how we discussed that on this forum maybe ten or twelve years ago? A lot us really thought the org had hired a PR firm back then. The changes were so drastic that I remember one poster (I think it was anddon'tcallmeshirley) wrote "What's next - congregation softball teams?" The org was morphing into a softer, more mainstream religion, seemingly trying to be more relevant and appealing. Along came broadcasting, cartoons, news, a talk show, pop-like music with videos, etc. I wish we could find some kind of evidence if they did hire a PR firm.

And now, no more reporting time and this new softer approach to the ministry.

21

Field Service

by Ding in

for those who are still attending meetings, what is happening at your congregation regarding field service now that reporting of hours is no longer required?.

are the elders pushing for people to go out in service anyway?.

what is the response?.

Magnum

Ding: The GB must not believe their own teaching about the imminence of Armageddon.
If they did, wouldn't they be doubling down instead of making all these changes?

There have to be some higher-ups who know something is wrong. The JW religion of today is nothing like it was in, for example, the 80's when I was probably at my most zealous point.

The "preaching" work is just pathetic. Think about this... if the dam is at the head of the valley is about to break any time and you know it, would you inform people in the manner of the JW preaching work now? According to their theology, billions of lives are at stake - BILLIONS! And they're going to just set up a few lame carts with some lame literature that doesn't really warn people at all? And now, they're just going to focus on listening to people and talking about whatever the people want to talk about instead of giving them a strong witness?

What about the Israelites' marching around Jericho on the seventh day? What about the bold, fearless preaching of the apostles in the city gates, etc.? JW preaching is nothing like any of that.

I've recently seen a number of YouTube videos by conservative types like Charlie Kirk. Now, please forget the socio-politics; that's not my point; my point is their method. They set up tents on college campuses and other places and welcome the deep questions and challenges and face them head on, unhesitatingly. Whether you agree or disagree with them, wouldn't you admit that they at least give evidence of strongly believing their own stuff and are willing to attempt to back it up? Now, compare that with JWs at carts. They will pack up and leave when presented with material from their own publications. They get looks on their faces indicating insecurity.

If JWs were who they claim to be, then their preaching should be getting bolder, louder, clearer as the end they foretell supposedly gets closer; yet it's getting weaker, softer, muddier.

That, to me, is one of the main indicators that they could not be who they claim to be. There is no possible way that a just god could judge humans adversely based on their response to the faint, weak, puny, cowardly, unclear preaching of JWs.

P.S. And who's just so idle and so lacking a life that they want to have a random lame conversation with JWs? I'm sure there are a few, and those are the only types the JW religion will attract from now on - the lonely, the societal misfits, the unstable, etc. Gone are the days when the religion attracted the thinking, smarter, stable types.

JWs are legends in their own minds. Do they really think people want to have conversations with them? They are clueless cult nobodies.

7

Appreciation post for Pam Grier

by LoveUniHateExams in

yeah, i love pam grier.. she was great in jackie brown (1997).. and she can sing very well, too.. .

enjoy .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwmyb6nii48.

Magnum

Hey! Been missing you. I thought you might have left. Glad I was wrong.

40

The Reasoning Book

by Magnum in

the book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.

many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.

it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.

Magnum

Cofty, I felt the same way. I hated it, too, and never used it. It's ironic that I felt I was doing something wrong by not using it; I felt guilty for actually knowing the Bible and not using the Reasoning book. I sometimes felt compelled to pull the book out just to show obedience (but didn't), knowing all the while that I could answer and reason better without it.

40

The Reasoning Book

by Magnum in

the book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.

many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.

it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.

Magnum

Ron.W., I used to well know the differences in the '85 & '89 versions and had them marked. I work out of town during the week, so I don't have access to my copies now, but I'm curious to go and look and refresh my memory.

40

The Reasoning Book

by Magnum in

the book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.

many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.

it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.

Magnum

careful, so, it really is out of print? I was wondering.

Oh, and I well remember the old Make Sure of All Things book, also, Bible Topics for Discussion, which was kind of simplified outline.

40

The Reasoning Book

by Magnum in

the book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.

many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.

it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.

Magnum

The book Reasoning from the Scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every Service Meeting, and every Theocratic Ministry School meeting thereafter. Many JWs had copies bound together with their Bibles. It was huge in JW land back then.

At that time, with the Reasoning book, JWs were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.

Compare the situation today with that of the 80's. Now JWs run from challenges and deeper questions, can't defend their doctrine, simply point to their website or play a video, etc. They no longer seem to want to reason from the Scriptures or, for that matter, reason at all.

So, what is the status of the Reasoning book now? Is it still published? Do JWs still use it? If it has been abandoned, then I take that as an indication that at least some of the higher-ups know that JW doctrine/policy is flawed.

101

The Next Big Thing In WT World

by NotFormer in

things got a bit lively after the agm leaks in october.

there was a lot of discussion going on on this board for a few months.

now that all the leaks have been more or less confirmed as policy, and we've had lively discussions at length concerning the changes, things seem to have slowed down here.. a few suggestions have been raised as to what might be the next changes, such as women being allowed to wear slacks (in the usa, anyway), decoupling from 1914 as an anchoring date and others.. so, what changes do you think will be announced this year?.

Magnum

Obrien: Bottom line is about survival in a rapidly changing environment.

That's it. The org is simply in survival mode - trying to keep the ship from sinking. Gone are the days of deeper doctrinal analysis and deeper study on prophecy. Gone are the days when the org was proactive; now it is simply reacting to a situation in which it knows it has been defeated and can no longer be bold and confident. It is trying desperately to retain what it has.

It has become and is still becoming more mainstream with a website, pop-like music videos, a talk show, shiny and glittery televangelist-like broadcasting, etc.