oops I made a mistake about the 20p there is no puzzle here.
Toss a 20p 100 times autocatalysis never occurs you get 50 heads and 50 tails (never imbalance even at the point of formation)
Too late to edit my post. But I will summarise in a few days.
KateWild
JoinedPosts by KateWild
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532
I conclude evolution is guided
by KateWild inyour qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
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532
I conclude evolution is guided
by KateWild inyour qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
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KateWild
K99,
I am finding your link really interesting and it's more up to date than Soai's reaction. This is an excerpt
Furthermore, such organoautocatalytic reactions should involve merely linear autocatalysis (unlike to Soai's example) in the light of lacking coordination sites at a metal allowing to form multiple catalytic aggregates. Linear autocatalysis alone, though, cannot result in the observed asymmetric amplification
To put in simple terms
50p yield different results that are not asymmetric amplification. I don't how to assign the 50p and I don't know the results. I haven't finished the paper but I will do some research to fill in my gaps of knowledge. I might even find out that they are talking about the 20p, but I doubt it.
Also noteworthy is the fact there are more chemicals than coins. I have only two left, or three if you count 1p which I didn't start with. So really this also shows that I didn't randomly choose coins, I am intellectually dishonest for saying it was random. Seriously though it just highlights that many random things have organisation. Even a coin toss which usually results in 50/50. But I can see why this would be a reason why a coin toss is not a suitable way to simplify. But it was the best if you only use four chemicals.
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Clickable Link Function
by cofty inhi simon - the site seems to be stripping out links.. can work around it by pasting the url but it was neater to be able to embed the link in some text.
is it a temp glitch?.
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KateWild
You seem to be very balanced, rational, kind, forgiving and open minded. More so than me. -
532
I conclude evolution is guided
by KateWild inyour qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
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KateWild
K99 I am interested in the link. I will read it now
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532
I conclude evolution is guided
by KateWild inyour qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
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KateWild
Cofty’s Challenge.
First of all I would like to make very clear. Cofty’s challenge doesn’t answer K99 questions about the specifics of my research and how it supports the existence of a deity. From the thread that we have both linked earlier today.
I just have formal Applied Chemistry qualifications, cantleave can confirm this as he has the same or better qualifications. I haven’t done any specific research with regards to supporting the existence of a deity. I feel any google research I do would be bias and I would not find it credible.
My OP is simply my opinions based on my knowledge, which may be less extensive than cantleave’s knowledge and he has the opposing opinions with similar chemistry background.
Even though Soai solved the puzzle of homochirality this http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ar5003208 is not related to this ……….
The fourth form — the DL mixture, is not a single molecule, but a mixture of equal amounts of D and L isomers. It does not rotate polarized light (like the meso form) because the rotation of light by the D and L forms is equal in amount but opposite in direction. It is possible to separate the DL mixture into the two isomers, each of which does rotate light. In the 1840s, Louis Pasteur determined that each of the two isomers of tartaric acid rotated light in opposite directions, and the meso form was inactive in this respect. He also separated by hand, crystals of the racemic mixture to show that it was made of equal amounts of the D and L forms, making it different than the meso form of tartaric acid.
Cut and pasted from here http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ar5003208
This is what I said in my word salad a few days ago when I discussed refractive index and racemic mixtures I think my word salad, a few pages ago says the same as this. The word meso has the exact same definition and the word racemic, which I just found out today. But they are different. A racemic mixture means the d-enantiomer and the l-enantiomer are not chemically bonded, and a meso compound means that the enantiomers have positively and negatively charged ions and this means the enantiomers are chemically bonded. I learnt this today. It was fun. Another difference is that a meso compound apparently cannot be separated and a racemic mixture can. Because Luis Pasteur said that the meso compound is not optically active. But it’s very likely that a chemist has found a way to do it today. People are on forums discussing it. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.chem/C_vvHxrufhQ
Cofty if you understand your link I am confused why you don’t understand my cut and paste, my word salad, and why my conclusion or opinion has nothing to do with solving the puzzle of homochirality.
But you gave me a challenge to put it in simple terms so I will.
Skip to simplification if you wish
I am going to explain it in terms of a coin toss and probabilities. Cofty, I know you think it’s NOTHING like a coin toss. I saw your caps lock comment before you deleted it, using caps lock doesn’t substantiate your point. Explain succinctly why a coin toss explanation is wrong. If you prefer to use caps lock to explain it feel free to do so, but caps lock has no bearing on any information I read.
I am going to assign…………….
l-enantiomer = heads
d-enantiomer = tails
Alanine = 2p
Glucose = 5p
Methanol = 10p
Tartaric acid = 20p
The size of the coins has no bearing on scale in relation to the size of the molecule. I just assigned the coins randomly. You could invert the assignment too if you like.
Toss a 2p 100 times autocatalysis always occurs you get 99 heads
Toss a 5p 100 times autocatalysis always occurs you get 99 tails (never heads)
Toss a 10p 100 times autocatalysis never occurs you get 48 heads 52 tails or 52 heads 48 tails (slight imbalance)
Toss a 20p 100 times autocatalysis never occurs you get 52 heads 48 tails or 48 heads 52 tails (slight imbalance)
The probability of these results without guidance is lower than the probability of these results with guidance. Each different coin or chemical will always yield the same results.
The website I found my word salad on is just a company that sells tartaric acid. It’s not an organic chemistry book. So if you dispute it’s credibility that’s fine. I won’t argue with that. But I know it’s right because I learnt my word salad from an organic chemistry book that I can’t reference because I gave it away. But I might buy a new one, because it’s useful.
K99 this in no way is evidence that supports the existence of a deity. I don’t claim to have this evidence.
Angus I agree that this is evidence of guidance by the laws of physics and chemistry perhaps the creators name is Laws of Physics and Chemistry. Does that mean I am a deist or pantheist, or believe in Spinoza’s God? I actually think I believe in Sam’s God, a definition of my very own that no one else has.
Yes I agree also that life is what chemistry does. If there was no chemistry there would be no life. But that’s abiogenesis. A different thread.
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Clickable Link Function
by cofty inhi simon - the site seems to be stripping out links.. can work around it by pasting the url but it was neater to be able to embed the link in some text.
is it a temp glitch?.
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KateWild
Thanks for sorting this out. I actually suspected Simon was blocking it, that's why I was suspicious. But he was blocking it for different reasons anyway, so I shouldn't have shown needless credulity.
I suppose I am completely not trusting as opposed to gullible. I need to develop more balance. I left WT in Nov 2013 and it's surprising that I haven't really fully recovered as I thought I had. Being a JW is still impacting me today.
Whereas K99 is still in and doesn't seem to be affected at all since he woke up.
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Fading 2.0
by pale.emperor inthe following examples are true.
witnessed by myself and many many other jw's of my age generation.. they're examples of a successful fade, and a failed fade and what we can learn from them.. the successful fade.
sister c - she gets baptized at 19yo.
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KateWild
Me a trouble maker? No lol hahaha
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Fading 2.0
by pale.emperor inthe following examples are true.
witnessed by myself and many many other jw's of my age generation.. they're examples of a successful fade, and a failed fade and what we can learn from them.. the successful fade.
sister c - she gets baptized at 19yo.
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KateWild
I think I was kind of a female brother M, but more my personal circumstances woke me up, and my daugher was sister C
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New Here ... Just woke up
by Sevan inhey all, .
this is my first post.
i haven't been out in service or to a meeting in over a month.. i realize now that i've been having serious questions for years and many articles and talks have greatly disturbed me over the years.
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KateWild
I am still trying to process everything, all the lies, the disillusionment, the suffering, the wasted time and financial sacrifices I've made for this religion, the lost friendships and opportunities, just everything. It is a whirlwind of emotion, but I know I'll get to a peaceful place eventually. - Sevan
You have only left WT weeks ago. This is to be expected. But we are her to support you if you need. Your last post was 9 days ago, I hope you have been reading still, but you could be busy working too.
You're right sometime this place can be heated and hostile. I believe that evolution is a guided process, and I believe in a Creator, I am just as guilty of being aggressive and heated as atheists. As my recent thread shows. After a month of leaving I didn't know what to believe and I was still very fragile and vulnerable.
Sometimes just reading the threads can be better than discussing them. But also they might not be good to read just yet as you have just very recently woken up. They can be heated and some relevant points get lost.
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532
I conclude evolution is guided
by KateWild inyour qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
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KateWild
K99 your link didn't work so I have posted it too I hope mine works.
I am nearly finished. But I am sure it will still be an anti climax for you. But lets see. I know it's taken 14 pages (on my device) But I have actually enjoyed doing all the chemistry. I am having fun. I am off today so it will about another hour or two, but I need a lunch break too, and the odd post on other threads lol.