willyloman

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Posts by willyloman

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  82

  What If Jehovah's Witnesses Are Right?

  by shamus in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the "what if" thing comes to mind... no matter how much i strongly believe that they are not, what if armageddon happened tomorrow and they were correct?

  would you have any sorrow for being wrong???.

  i, personally would not.

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  willyloman

  Saw an old, old sci fi movie on TV the other night. The invaders from outer space were from Mars. Sixty years ago or so, intelligent life on Mars was an idea you could sell to the masses. Today, thanks to advanced science, we know that's not possible and we don't bother fantasizing about it.
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  29

  IS THIS A BELIEVABLE COINCIDENCE?

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i had a really unique experience today that i want to share but will have to give you a little of my background first.

  i hope you find it interesting.. .

  teenage years.

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  willyloman

  Stuff like this has actually happened three times in my life. Here's the most unusual one:

  Took a vacation from work to plant a lawn at my newly constructed house in a city I had recently moved to. Went to a nearby gravel/dirt yard to order delivery of topsoil. Guy came out and took my order. Filled out the form, asked for my name. It's an unusual name, and I started to spell it for him. He said, "I know how to spell it." He put the clipboard down and said, "Just a minute." He walked back into the office and came out with his business card and handed it to me. We had the same (unusual) last name and his first name was very familiar to me because all my life people I had just met back in my hometown (big city) would ask me, "Oh, are you so-and-so's brother?"

  Over a 25-year span, I had been asked that question dozens of times. People said, "You look just like him." I tried to look him up but he had moved away. After that, whenever people asked if we were related, I'd ask them if they knew where he went, but no one did.

  So here we were in this small town several hours from where we grew up, and he's telling me, "I used to get your mail." We did look a lot alike. We made arrangements to grab lunch together. He brought a family-tree book with him and we looked up all our old relatives. Turns out we're distant (very distant) cousins.

  Wish this had a happy ending. As you probably guessed from the geneology reference, he's a Mormon. I was a slave to dubdom, so of course we couldn't hang out together. Years have passed and we've lost touch.
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  11

  As we move from side to side...

  by Duncan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...we hear the total mass retain.. .

  recently, i went to a yes concert with some old jw buddies who got in contact with me.

  we were all yes fanatics when we were 17, and pioneers.

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  willyloman

  Maybe they were just happy to get away from the Kingdom Hall and congregation and everything and just be themselves with me for a bit, and enjoy the music/event/nostalgia.

  This is because so many witnesses realize the fairy tale is passing away and these kinds of events are an opportunity to forget all about it for a while and be normal. The desire to be "normal" is a powerful draw and used to be offset by the urgency of the times: "Hey, just a few more months/years and we can be ourselves!" Now that many JWs have put dreamland waaaaay off into the future, they're looking for ways to express natural feelings and instincts. And since many others are doing the same thing, it's not necessary to hide it as much as it used to be. What you're seeing is the slow, glacier-like shift to the mainstream which will be fully accomplished by JWs in, oh, about 50 more years.
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  39

  How Much is Personal Responsibility vs WTS' Fault?

  by Prisca in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the current discussion of an ex-gb member has prompted me to ponder this question:.

  just how much of our personal circumstances can/do we take responsibility for, and how much do we blame the wts?

  you may have grown up as a jw, coerced into leaving early to pioneer, not go to university, have no kids, even stay single for the pursuit of singleness in the kingdom work to pioneer or go to bethel.

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  willyloman

  This thread is golden. It's filled with eloquent and passionate words and thought provoking concepts. Everybody gather around and read this!
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  13

  The abomination that causes desolation

  by Blue in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  good afternoon everyone,.

  does anyone know what daniel the prophet meant when he talked about the abomination that causes desolation?

  the book says that when we come to understand what the abomination that causes desolation is to flee to the mountains.

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  willyloman

  It means... whatever you want it to!
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  35

  Alcohol and the Witness

  by Maverick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i first was studying with the duds, one of the things i found interesting is that duds are ok with drinking alcohol, "in moderation".

  i never was a big drinker, usually one drink if i'm out and will have to drive and no more than three in any 24 hour period, even if i'm staying home.. i wonder if the fact the "the judge" was a rumpot contributed to the soft attitude on alcohol?

  most of the brothers i knew were big drinkers and many of the older elders drank more with dinner that i drink in a weekend.

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  willyloman

  One more opinion in support of the majority here: JW's are by and large heavy drinkers. Elders especially like to drink, or feel they have to, because of the extra pressures they face.

  What would make an interesting study is the role alcohol plays enabling in cognitive dissonance. One brother I know quit drinking after serving many years as an elder. He quit because he sensed he was becoming dependent and decided to stop to see how his body reacted. When the reaction was bad, it scared him and he swore off booze.

  As the months went by, he began to be surprised by how his view of things changed. He looked at things much more critically, and asked questions he used to stifle. He came to realize his drinking had masked and inhibited an inner struggle for many years. Now sober, he began to think independently and to see the "truth" for what it truly is. Big emotional earthquake for him.
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  33

  Did You Really Believe in The 1975 Rhetoric?

  by Guest 77 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  personally no, and as such i was never disappointed that the system didn't end.

  embarrassed, yes.

  the org.

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  willyloman

  As the responses on this thread clearly show, belief in the end coming in '75 was largely dependent on the congregation you were in. In some cases, whole congregations were divided.

  I was just coming into "the truth" in '75, but there was lots of talk about it, especially early in the year. I remember a speaker one Sunday counting down the time until Armageddon; he had it all figured out, so many days, hours, minutes, until Oct. 5-6, or some such date. He told the audience there were only so many days left and they we'd all be in the new order. You could have heard a pin drop. Afterward, I asked one of the elders about it and he told me the speaker was out of line and should not stated his own opinion as fact; he further implied "the brother has been talked to" about the matter. I'd been studying for a few months and this was my second or third meeting. I asked him for more details, and he just said that "some" people had come to this conclusion based on some bible chronology and not to worry about it.

  After that I began to notice the members of the congregation fell into two camps. Some wouldn't buy a house or make a doctor's appointment or put their kids in school, because there were "just a matter of months left in this old system." Others pointed out that the Society was purchasing new presses and real estate and took a philosophical approach: Plan ahead but keep living with a sense of urgency.

  It's the same today. There are two kinds of witnesses now; those who expect the end to come soon, and those who don't. The former tend to be arch-conservatives and extremely strict in their interpretation of bible doctrine. The latter are much more liberal in their outlook and laissez-faire with respect to "the rules."
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  16

  July 8 Awake! - Erik Haaest's Recommendation

  by Stephanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from the back of the 8/7/2003 awake!

  so, who is this erik haaest, what is he an author of, and why would the 'tower flog the recommendation of a wordly author so enthusiastically?

  can any of our european friends enlighten us?

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  willyloman

  Subtract the number of baptized jws from the circulation number and you get about 16,000,000 magazines that are read by non-jws who likely have little intention of ever converting.

  Then subtract from 16 million the number of copies sitting in closets and on bookshelves of the averge dub for many months before they are tossed out (or left in laundromats to be tossed out by others). If the average dub has 2 or 3 copies of each issue lying around, and you multiply that by 6 million, that doesn't leave much "circulation," does it?
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  11

  JW Statistical Graph

  by Joker10 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those who think mormons are more 'successful' than the witnesses.. .

  does the mormon church really have 11.7 million members?

  keep in mind that the church practice 'quick-baptisms'.

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  willyloman

  Very well put!

  The memorial attendance actually represents their past failure, not their future potential.
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  Anyone read Beyond Belief?

  by willyloman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a current bestseller is beyond belief by elaine pagels, a study of the book of thomas, which did not make the cut when the early church set the canon 1,600 years ago.

  has anyone read this?

  is it worth buying?.

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  willyloman

  A current bestseller is Beyond Belief by Elaine Pagels, a study of the Book of Thomas, which did not make the cut when the early church set the canon 1,600 years ago. Has anyone read this? Is it worth buying?

  Here's a Publisher's Weekly blurb that caught my eye:

  At the center of her book is the conflict between the gospels of John and Thomas. Reading these gospels closely, she shows that Thomas offered readers a message of spiritual enlightenment. Rather than promoting Jesus as the only light of the world, Thomas taught individuals that "there is a light within each person, and it lights up the whole universe. If it does not shine, there is darkness." As she eloquently and provocatively argues, the author of John wrote his gospel as a refutation of Thomas, portraying the disciple Thomas as a fool when he doubts Jesus, and Jesus as the only true light of the world. Pagels goes on to demonstrate that the early Christian writer Irenaeus promoted John as the true gospel while he excluded Thomas, and a host of other early gospels, from the list of those texts that he considered authoritative. His list became the basis for the New Testament canon when it was fixed in 357. Pagels suggests that we recover Thomas as a way of embracing the glorious diversity of religious tradition. As she elegantly contends, religion is not merely an assent to a set of beliefs, but a rich, multifaceted fabric of teachings and experiences that connect us with the divine.