Posts by mizpah

21

Two most important doctrines of JW's.

by Mr Bean in

1. you will believe in the sacrifice of jesus christ.

2. you will believe in god's anointed,directed and inspired organization.. .

in case you are not sure, study baptismal questions.. .

mizpah

Here are a few thoughts:

Wouldn't one think that if a Jehovah's Witness really believes that his disfellowshipped relatives are going to die at Armageddon that it would be more reason for them to associate with them now?

Does the Watchtower Society really think that shunning brings a person to repentence? Rather, doesn't it build a resentment against a cruel and uncaring organization?

Is it reasonable that a group of old men who have no families of their own (Governing Body) should make decisions which divide other families and bring much sorrow and pain upon them?

22

"Beware the Voice of the WTS"

by undercover in

i've been thinking about the part at the dc on "beware the voice of strangers".

they mention three areas to watch: any dissenting talk against the organization, the internet and the media(as in newspapers, news-shows on tv, etc.).

there's been quite a bit of talk already on this board about the internet part of the talk.

Your comment about the "given one" or the "Nethinim" reminds me just how amusing the Watchtower is at times. It can't resist giving scriptural examples ("types") to justify even their modest changes of policy. Now that the number of "annointed members" are diminishing at the headquarters, they are preparing to explain away why more and more of the operations are given into the hands of those who claim to be of "the other sheep" class. So, it once again reaches into the Old Testament for an example to justify its position. This time it is the temple slaves or servants who aided the priests. Do you think that they are narrowing its definition to only those of that class that serves at Bethel? It wasn't too many years ago where these same "types" represented all the "other sheep."

I guess we should be glad that the Watchtower is not governing over all of us. I fear it would reach back to use the "types" who served as Jehovah's executioners. We wouldn't fare very well under such a system.

35

Having children ??? did the Watchtower have an affect on your decisions ???

by run dont walk in

i remember growing up and thinking that there was no way i would have kids ......... why ???

....... because i did not want to raise them the way i was raised, in the borg.

i went through hell, why put a defenceless child through that.

mizpah

No Lisa. The old pioneer sister's name was Sue. She faithfully remained single to devote her life to the preaching work. She was one of those hard working people who never wanted attention or praise. Well, she sadly ended up getting neither by being abandoned by her "brothers and sisters" in the congregation.

But I am sure that there are many other examples of similar circumstances. Once a person's usefulness is over it seems the Watchtower Society disposes of its useless members. As I recall, Ray Franz gives a tragic example of this in one of his books. A brother who served at Bethel for many years ended up alone and disparate. Such is the reward for a life time of devotion to a cruel organization.

9

Al Kidd on Blood

by Marvin Shilmer in

another apologist for the watchtower society doctrinal position on blood has written on the subject.

his name is al kidd.

his written comments can be found at

mizpah

Remember the expression: "strain out the gnat but swallow the camel?" Like the Talmudists, the organization makes a bunch of rules over what they consider are answers to questions derived from unclear understanding of scripture. It takes pages of explanations and years of publicatioins to develop some of these rules. Jehovah's Witnesses end up with volumes of Watchtower articles as references instead of the Bible.

Jehovah's Witnesses then make sure that they avoid every little infraction that the Watchtower dictates. But they willingly swallow the whole mouthful of Watchtower pronouncements. Swallowing a few "gnats" probably won't hurt a person. But trying to force down a "camel" can kill you.

3

An anointed received blood and was not df'ed.......1958

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

w58 8/1 p. 478 questions from readers ***

questions

from readers

mizpah

We should not be surprised by the changes in the Watchtower Society over the years. It takes time to build a policy in any organization. As the problems increase, rules are promoted and adopted to "solve" them. Eventually, the organization becomes far more rigid in its make up and far less pliable to allow individual choices.

Sometimes it works in reverse. Years ago the Watchtower proscribed vaccinations. Many of the same arguments used by the Watchtower today to prohibit blood transfusions were used to justify its position on vacinations. I remember hearing of one sister who "sucked" out the vaccination of her child to prevent the "poisons" from entering his body. The truth of the matter was that some of the old timers who were in important positions in the Watchtower like Clayton Woodworth did not believe in the theory of germs. Probably their reasoning was the sickness and death were a result of sin not germs. This prohibition was dropped in the administration of Nathan Knorr.

Even the position on disfellowshipping vascillated over the years. There was a period of time when a disfellowshipped person could have normal association with his JW relatives provided they did not discuss "spiritual things." But when the Governing Body became paranoid over the alleged defection of high ranking people at the headquarters, the Society clamped down and tightened up its rules. And this situation continues to this day.

21

Two most important doctrines of JW's.

by Mr Bean in

1. you will believe in the sacrifice of jesus christ.

2. you will believe in god's anointed,directed and inspired organization.. .

in case you are not sure, study baptismal questions.. .

mizpah

Freeman is right. Whenever the elders call to determine whether or not you remain a faithful Jehovah's Witness, it is not your belief in Jehovah or in Christ that they are investigating. The critical question for them is whether or not you still believe that the Watchtower Society represents God's only channel of communication. If you question this or even express doubts about it you will probably be invited to attend a meeting with the elders at the Kingdom Hall to "readjust your thinking." Many times this meeting actually turns out to be a judicial meeting.

The elders act more like spiritual policemen than they do loving brothers. And those in the congregation will avoid you if just a rumor has brought suspicion on your standing in the congregation. And it has been my experience that rumors are often initiated by the wives of the elders who always seem to be privy to confidential matters in the congregation.

SOJ: There is a vast difference between the party line of the Watchtower and the reality of what really occurs.

27

Racism in the WTS

by RR in

jw
friends

.

quick question, has anyone ever experienced racism in the wts?.

rr

mizpah

Although the Watchtower did not officially discriminate, it also did not make any effort to integrate until the civil rights movement made it legal. JWs who are old enough will remember how meetings and assemblies in the south were segregated for years. The excuse the Society used was that it had to "obey Ceasar's laws" even the state Jim Crow laws. And I don't recall one black brother reaching any high position within the organizational headquarters until recent times. Certainly, the Governing Body remained a "white man's domain" ...and probably still does.

Clearly, there were individuals in the congregations who had strong prejudices. One presiding overseer I knew made no effort to hide his ridicule and contempt of the black "brothers." And he treated the one black family we had in the congregation as inferior members. Ironically, when we finally did get a black circuit overseer, this same elder "licked his boots" to remain in good standing. It was nauseating!

On the whole, I think the record of Jehovah's Witnesses is probably better than most. But they also did not take the lead to integrate even within their own organization.

29

Israel??

by l3gi0n in

what do you think of israel being reestablished in one day on may 14 ,1948?

do you think it is the fulfillment of .

isaiah 66:7 "before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.

mizpah

Didn't most of the Old Testament prophcies predict peace and prosperity for Israel and the world upon its return? If true, how can we correlate the present conditions in Israel with these prophecies?

It is interesting that many ultra orthodox Jews reject the idea. They feel that prophecy will not be fulfilled until the Messiah appears. They look upon Zionism and the state of Israel as an attempt to force a false fulfillment against the will of God.

What is more important to me is the fact that the Jews and Israel are still around to see the fulfillment of these ancient prophecies regardless of how they are fulfilled.

21

Two most important doctrines of JW's.

by Mr Bean in

1. you will believe in the sacrifice of jesus christ.

2. you will believe in god's anointed,directed and inspired organization.. .

in case you are not sure, study baptismal questions.. .

mizpah

Doesn't this second condition for baptism remind you of the loyalty oaths of the 1950s during the Communist scare? It certainly is evidence that the organization is still quite paranoid over the defection of the "apostates" in recent years. I'm glad I was baptized in the days when dedication to Jehovah and Christ were the only priorities. In fact, I was baptized three times in my life: First, as an infant in the Methodist church, then I was immersed as a teenager in the Baptist church and finally, I was baptised as a young adult at a Yankee Stadium assembly. I figure that out of the three, one, at least, must be valid.

9

cross or stake???

by minstrel in

can anyone advise me as to the historical facts regarding the method of execution by the romans.

i have seen a documentary on the tele that stated that lemon trees fitted with a cross beam were used for executions as they were numerous in palestine.. best wishes.

minstrel.

mizpah

I always found the argument of the Watchtower for "torture stake" rather fallacious. It does not matter whether the orginal Greek word "stauros" meant an upright beam. What is important is what the Greek word meant at the time of Jesus' execution and the writing of the gospels. If by this time, the Greek word included the Roman "crux" then all arguments to the contrary are to no avail. And this seems to be the case.

It is worthy to note that the Watchtower of Russell's day used the symbol of the cross and crown. It was only as the Watchtower organization began to distance itself with other churches that a concerted effort was made to separate itself from anything resembling these churches. The very nature of a cult is to destroy the old and create the new. The Watchtower leadership was very effective in doing this very thing.