Posts by mizpah

29

Who really writes the talks

by anglise in

hallo everyone.

the earlier thread about the min school reminded me of the number of times that i researched and at least partly put together items and pub talks for 'he must be obeyed'.. this was necessary because he worked full time in a demanding job which left very little leeway for cobbling the many assignments together.

at first being a good dub wife i felt guilty at doing this but in talking to others whose husbands also worked full time and were not part time cleaners or window cleaners i found that several other elders wives had always done this.. not only the talks but also sorting out the school assigments, the schedules, field service arrangements, sorting the auditing, coach and accomodation for the dc and ca, checking the accounts etc.. lots of these sisters also helped their children put together their items.. rather makes a mockery of the male privilege of "taking the lead".. most elders and ms are unable to cope with all the pressures and work if their wives dont do most for them.

mizpah

It is obvious that the economic status of Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society has changed in recent years. This is reflected in the prosperity of the Watchtower organization. One can only account for this by suggesting that many new converts brought a higher level of earnings and more generous contributions...or that a number of younger people in the organization ignored the counsel of the Watchtower and went ahead with their career plans anyway. In either case, it was not because the Watchtower encouraged people to pursue a lucrative career. But it is enjoying the fruits of this prosperity today.

The fact that JWs are still boasting about their properous brothers and sisters leads me to think that it is still important as a status symbol among its members. Does the rich man still get more attention and honor than the poor "brothers?" It used to be that way twenty years ago. And I dare suggest that it remains the same even today.

29

Israel??

by l3gi0n in

what do you think of israel being reestablished in one day on may 14 ,1948?

do you think it is the fulfillment of .

isaiah 66:7 "before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.

mizpah

I digress from the subject a bit. But I recently read an article about a number of Fundamentalists and some radical Orthodox Jews are working toward the re-establishment of the Temple on the Temple mount. As I understand it, they have even made a search for a perfect "red heifer" to use in sacrifice and are making garments for the high priest and under priests and possibly planning for a new ark of the covenant along with the other Temple accouterments.

Most of the Jews, however, realize that to remove the present Islamic mosques on the site would cause the greatest Jihad ever. It would, undoubtedly, unite the fractured Islamic nations in their desire to destroy Israel. This is why the majority of the Jews are repressing any effort toward this end.

Speaking of Bible prophecy...does anyone know who the Watchtower now identifies as the "king of the north?" Since the breakup of the Soviet Union, it has been very quiet about its identity. Is this just another example of the Watchtower's failure to accurately predict prophetic fulfillments? It's trash can must be getting quite full now...

51

How Long Were You "In Transition" Before You Left The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

weeks, months, years??

?

mizpah

Joy2bfree:

I have all of these books in my library. I'm sure they will remain the most valuable sources of information for all who leave or contemplate leaving the organization. It's worthy to note that all these authors were sincere and zealous Jehovah's Witnesses before being cast out. Sadly, the Watchtower never realized what treasures they were losing in these men.

It seems that the Watchtower has rejected its "brightest and best." But we can be very thankful that these same men were inspired to write books that have greatly helped so many of us get the proper perspective in a scholarly (Jonnson, Penton} and kind (Franz) manner.

40

Howcome the WTS does not include personal testimonies...

by jgnat in

howcome the wts does not include personal testimonies in their meetings (i mean, ones that have not been edited by the writing department)?

oftentimes when i am preparing for an instructional course, i go looking for a sample completed form.

in order that my students are not led astray, i try and find the perfect sample.

mizpah

Do you remember when printed questions were handed out to the "brothers and sisters" before a public talk to give the impression that the questions from the audience were spontaneous? ( I always was uncomfortable with this deception.) Usually things went along fine.

On one occasion, the speaker was a "visiting brother" who handed them out. But during his talk he forgot who had what question. A "person of goodwill" raised his hand at the appropriate time and asked a question that had nothing to do with the speaker's outline. The speaker was totally thrown off balance and could not even properly answer the question.

If a personal experience was shared with the congregation, it was usually well rehearsed in advance and approved by the elders. All the meetings were, what I think is termed, "canned." Years ago, Book Studies allowed for more discussions and comments. But then the Society discouraged even this. A set schedule was made to cover so much material at each study. It allowed no time for interesting comments or related Biblical material. One had to answer according to the paragraph. It became just another meeting by rote...much the same as the Watchtower Study.

52

Logic Lures Them in, Emotions Keep them In

by jgnat in

the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.

they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.

the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.

mizpah

Northern Girl:

Perhaps, this is the best "forum for Jehovah's Witnesses" that is available at this time. Jehovah's Witnesses have a very narrow view that is controlled primarily by the organization. But sites like this opens up a window of various and divergent views that one will not hear at the Kingdom Hall. And this is why the Watchtower Society has discouraged its members from using these sources.

Whenever one considers the information or comments, it is important to "winnow" out the meaningless or trite and concentrate on what is important and insightful. There are things to be learned by those who have been active JWs and who, for some reason, left the organization. There are many of us who still respect and love Jehovah's Witnesses.

I think some people actually need the discipline and structure of a religious organization...even the Watchtower. But one should also consider the cost. For one to be a Jehovah's Witness in good standing, one has to obey those rules that separate friends and families. One has to seriously consider whether or not this is a Christian way of life.

May you find peace in your pursuit of truth.

29

Who really writes the talks

by anglise in

hallo everyone.

the earlier thread about the min school reminded me of the number of times that i researched and at least partly put together items and pub talks for 'he must be obeyed'.. this was necessary because he worked full time in a demanding job which left very little leeway for cobbling the many assignments together.

at first being a good dub wife i felt guilty at doing this but in talking to others whose husbands also worked full time and were not part time cleaners or window cleaners i found that several other elders wives had always done this.. not only the talks but also sorting out the school assigments, the schedules, field service arrangements, sorting the auditing, coach and accomodation for the dc and ca, checking the accounts etc.. lots of these sisters also helped their children put together their items.. rather makes a mockery of the male privilege of "taking the lead".. most elders and ms are unable to cope with all the pressures and work if their wives dont do most for them.

mizpah

Perhaps times have changed in the organization. But years ago young people were discouraged from getting a college education or even pursuing a career that required further schooling. Young people were encouraged to pioneer right out high school. And when a person did secure a job, he was expected not to work overtime or take a shift that would interfere with meetings and service. The whole emphasis was that "the time remaining was short" and one should be devoting his time to service and the meetings.

Because many found it economically very hard especially as the young people in the organization married and had families, they created their own jobs. In our area, a good many JWs went into the cleaning business or landscape business. Both jobs required no great skills or education. And, in fact, a decent living could be made by hard work and a good reputation.

The irony is that when a person came into the organization with a skilled job or a good education, everyone boasted about it. It seemed to be a mark of distinction to have such in the congregation. (No matter that the Watchtower had discouraged those in the ranks not to pursue this course.) Also, we always noticed that the elders and visiting overseers (COs & DOs) would always closely associate with those who better off financially. Perhaps, it was the white envelopes that were passed to them that everyone knew contained money.

At least years ago, most JWs were at a disadvantage on the economic ladder. But some enterprising individuals were able to over come it.

21

Two most important doctrines of JW's.

by Mr Bean in

1. you will believe in the sacrifice of jesus christ.

2. you will believe in god's anointed,directed and inspired organization.. .

in case you are not sure, study baptismal questions.. .

mizpah

Is it possible that this inclusion in the baptism ceremony was really a legal ploy of the Watchtower Society? With the increase of lawsuits against the organization, could this be used as evidence to prevent a person from claiming damages from the organization that he took a vow to support?

Perhaps, I'm just being too cynical. But it did occur to me that the Society's motivation could be more than just the obvious "loyalty oath" apsect.

29

Israel??

by l3gi0n in

what do you think of israel being reestablished in one day on may 14 ,1948?

do you think it is the fulfillment of .

isaiah 66:7 "before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.

mizpah

Yes, I realized the context was Jesus' admonition to his apostles who had expectations that were not to be fulfilled at that time. This is why I think the advice is good for all of us too.

There have been too many religious leaders and scholars who thought they had found the "key" to Bible understanding through Bible prophecy. The whole Adventist movement was based upon this belief. All came to bitter disappointment when the events predicted failed. And all their impressive charts and graphs were for nothing.

If history is a good teacher, caution should be the rule.

45

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-20-03 WT Study

by blondie in

17but you will not even need to fight.

revelation 14:1, 3 (snippet).

(revelation 7:9 snippet).

mizpah

Opps...I forgot to answer your question, Blondie: Yes "Mizpah" does mean watchtower. But it has the significance of "May Jehovah watch between you and me while we are apart from one another." I always admired this sentiment.

45

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-20-03 WT Study

by blondie in

17but you will not even need to fight.

revelation 14:1, 3 (snippet).

(revelation 7:9 snippet).

mizpah

It's not that I don't appreciate and admire the research work that is done. My concern is that until one breaks the hold that the Watchtower has over you, you will never come to appreciate true Christian freedom. The Watchtower will still control you and your lives as long as it demands your time and attention.

Blondie: I didn't realize that you were so recently associated with the Watchtower. And I can understand your drive to prove it wrong. But it has been twenty years since my wife and I left. And after a time, we came to realize that our time is more valuable and precious than to dwell on what is wrong in every article and publication of the Watchtower. It's simply not worth it.

I'm glad some of you benefit by this type of critical review. But my hope is that you'll be able to get beyond this need and start enjoying life without the Watchtower.