Posts by imallgrowedup

44

Libya to give up WMD!!

by imallgrowedup in

breaking news!

libya has voluntarily decided to dismantle their wmd program!

i guess the iraq war and the subsequent capture of saddam is having a ripple effect!

imallgrowedup

SS -

I don't think that i would deny them that. It's their roughshod trampling on others to which i take exception. Their genocide on the indigenous, practically since their beginning in that area.
Do you think palestinians have the right to statehood?

I definitely think the Palestinians have the right to statehood, just as I believe that Israel has the right to statehood. And as much as I think it childish for me to say so, history shows that the Palestinians were the first to shoot at Israel, which says to me that they've had to fight for the right to exist from the first day of their birth as a nation. I do not like the fact that Israel and the Palestinians fight so much, however, I also get frustrated when I see Israel offer olive branch after olive branch, and the Palestinians refuse to accept it. From personal observation and specific news reports, I've come to believe that the Palestinians truly do not want peace with Israel. They just want them out. And not "out" in the sense of "please leave" but in the sense of "out of existence." Yes, Israel can be aggressive, however, they are provoked on a daily basis. And until the Palestinians can negotiate an agreement that they will actually keep with Israel, I believe that Israel has every right to have WMD to protect themselves.

That said, I do feel for the Palestinians. I can see why they don't like the idea that land they occupied for years one day just up and got deeded to another nation. That has to be very difficult. In fact, I can imagine the anger I would feel if I woke up tomorrow and found out that some treaty gave my home to someone else who lived on my land nearly two centuries before me - without even consulting me! So I have just the smallest inkling of what it must be like for the Palestinians.

For what it is worth, SS, I really wasn't looking to get in a heated debate about this. I was just curious about where you were coming from. Although many on the board may laugh, I believe that this conflict is part of God's judgment on Israel for denying the messiahship of his son. Therefore, I doubt very seriously whether there will ever be peace there, WMD or not, agreements or not, changed attitudes or not, until God wants it.

growedup

44

Libya to give up WMD!!

by imallgrowedup in

breaking news!

libya has voluntarily decided to dismantle their wmd program!

i guess the iraq war and the subsequent capture of saddam is having a ripple effect!

imallgrowedup

SS -

I've not really posted with you much, so I am not sure about your background. However, I get the impression that you do not think that Israel has a right to statehood. Am I wrong?

growedup

53

One More Elder who is starting to Question the WT

by sis in distress in

he told my husband ?i don?t care, i just need to know is this the truth or not?

i just don?t understand why.

once again i was asked a question that i could not answer.

imallgrowedup

Sis -

Wow! A very well-written letter. In fact, I'm printing it out for my mother to see.

Please - do not let your friend be swayed by the Society! First of all - the library card issue is bigger than your friend may think. I would bet the Society will tell your friend (if they bother to answer him before they disfellowship him and anyone he associates with) that they had to join the UN as an NGO in order to get a library card. That is patently untrue. Not only would the Society not need a library card, there are several libraries who can borrow UN books and lend them to the Society - and at least one of them is closer than the UN campus. They may also try to tell your friend that they did not know the rules of an NGO before they signed up. Again, this is FALSE. For documentation on this, visit www.freeminds.org which has copies of letters former WT members have received from the UN which state rules for library cards and NGO requirements in the year the WT applied, which was 1991.

Speaking of 1991, I laughed out loud when I read that the WT did an article about Christendom getting involved with the Wild Beast in that same year. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds!

Anyway, please keep us posted on what happens with this.

growedup

P.S. Please check the upper left hand corner (under the Visa/MasterCard sign) for a pm I sent you a while back.

44

Libya to give up WMD!!

by imallgrowedup in

breaking news!

libya has voluntarily decided to dismantle their wmd program!

i guess the iraq war and the subsequent capture of saddam is having a ripple effect!

imallgrowedup

Yeru -

Well now...isn't that special...except for the fact that the only reason Israel still exists as a nation is because it possess WMD. Listen ..when all the aggression against Israel goes away...and it can live secure in it's borders THEN we talk about Israel and WMD.

Although I did not word it this way, I agree with you completely. Israel has been repeatedly attacked by the Palestinians and others (not to mention Iraq in the first Gulf War), and would not be safe until all the WMD in their region were gone. If anyone goes back in their history books and takes a look at who fired the first shot, it was the Palestinians. Israel has every right to defend herself against daily attacks against her country - especially against those who want to obliterate her from the face of the earth. Until Israel can be safe from repeated attacks, I see no problem with her having WMD. However, once they are all gone from the mid-east, I believe Israel needs to disarm as well.

Simon -

We're being told the date of March by politicians with the pressure on them. Forgive me for not believing everything they say at face value. They will spin everything they can to get the maximum political milage out of any and every event.

With all due respect, there were also reporters who had pressure on them to hammer out an article or get it on the news by 6:00. And for what it is worth, they are not innocent bystanders when it comes to spinning everything they can to get the maximum political mileage out of any and every event. Do two "wrongs" make a "right"? No. But can you honestly say that you take every article you read, whether it fits with your world views or not, with a grain of salt - due to a possible political spin?

growedup

48

A serious question about the angels that materialized pre-flood

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

according to the bible, the angels saw the daughters of men, materialized into human bodies and married the women, had children.

here's my question...did they create for themselves a human body or did they transform themselves into a human body that already existed?

i know this may seem silly, but i was just wondering where the sperm came from to impregnate the women?

imallgrowedup

Heathen,

I am still very interested in the giant skeletons they found .

Me, too! I wish there was a way to get into the basement of the Smithsonian to see if they are really there. *sigh*

growedup

85

Senators Told Iraq Had WOMD & Delivery Capability

by Satanus in

http://www.floridatoday.com/!newsroom/localstoryn1216nelson.htm

u.s. sen. bill nelson said monday the bush administration last year told him and other senators that iraq not only had weapons of mass destruction, but they had the means to deliver them to east coast cities.

nelson, d-tallahassee, said about 75 senators got that news during a classified briefing before last october's congressional vote authorizing the use of force to remove saddam hussein from power.

imallgrowedup

Guest,

Honestly, the indian issue is completely and totally separate from the WMD issue. It certainly is an interesting issue to debate, especially since I have all kinds of information to contribute to the subject. However, I will not allow myself to be distracted from the topic of this thread, which is WMD. I think it would be a great idea to open a new thread on this very fascinating subject and keep this one going as a discussion of WMD. What do you think?

As far as why Saddam didn't use the WMD that many believe he had/has, I have some theories to present. I have copied and pasted this from a pm message I've sent, however, I think it bears repeating in this thread. Please poke holes in it if you see any, but please don't bring up the indians again, because that is not the discussion topic, okay?! :-) Here is my reasoning:

First, Saddam "fell off the face of the earth" after the first strike, and from what we can tell, apparently there was no one running the show after that. In the US, no WMD are to be used without the explicit consent and order of the Commander-in-Chief. Even if Saddam gave also gave this authority to Uday and Qusay, all three of them were underground, and therefore, there was no one who had the authority to give that order in a position to do so.

Secondly, the first strike was only days after the second group of weapons inspectors left Iraq. Since Saddam went to such great lengths to hide his aircraft (30 of them were found buried in the desert), I can only imagine what he would do to hide the wmd. I believe the news reports which say that former Iraqi regime members are talking, and are saying that the wmd were hidden just inside the Syrian and Iranian borders to be credible. WMD don't have to be big huge apparatuses, some are no bigger than a test tube - others, like Yeru says, are no bigger than a 2-litre bottle of coke. Items this size can easily be hidden from another government (ie. the US, Britain, Iran and Syria), as well as a border patrol. I think it is entirely plausible that Saddam didn't have time to get them back before the first strike, and/or didn't have time to unearth them from where they were buried.

Third, by the time we reached Baghdad, most of the Iraqi army had deserted or surrendered. Even if Saddam had been around to order the wmd that he got back from Syria and Iran to be used, there wouldn't have been many soldiers around to take that order.

Fourth, we know that Saddam was in the process of making WMD because of intelligence reports which showed Saddam was getting uranium from (I belive) Nigeria. There is no other use for uranium except for bomb-making purposes. If he didn't have wmd, or was in the process of making non-biological wmd, why was he purchasing uranium?

growedup

44

Libya to give up WMD!!

by imallgrowedup in

breaking news!

libya has voluntarily decided to dismantle their wmd program!

i guess the iraq war and the subsequent capture of saddam is having a ripple effect!

imallgrowedup

I do believe that Bebu has a good point in that the death of his daughter may have played a role in Qadaffi's decision. However, since this event happened in April of 1986, I don't believe it is the sole reason he decided to disarm, or he would have done it well before 17 and a half years had elapsed. As Simon pointed out, perhaps part of the reason he is being so much more cooperative is because of the Lockerbie, Scotland settlement. I believe that may be a contributing factor. However, if his heart was so repentent and he was seeking to provide restitution to family members, why did he wait until the war against Iraq to belly up to Britain? Why didn't he do it right after the bombing?

There are very few decisions anyone makes in life based upon one consideration. Sometimes there is one very compelling reason, but generally speaking, most decisions are based upon several factors. So perhaps, Qadaffi's heart did soften after his daughter's death, and maybe he did decide to show his softer side by approaching Britain to make restitution to family members who died at the hands of terrorists he endorsed. However, I think the single most compelling reason Qadaffi decided to give up his WMD is because he saw that he could no longer hide behind the UN for protection. He saw that their very inaction rendered them useless, and that some countries weren't going to sit around and wait for the UN to grow a set of cajones. He knew it was just a matter of time before it was his turn at bat, and he didn't like the odds.

That said, I think Qadaffi made the right decision, and I hope Iran and N Korea follow his example.

SS - You are right - if one country in the mid-east needs to give up their WMD, so does Israel.

growedup

8

Al-Qaida: US soldiers "cowards", "on the run"

by Gerard in

two years after tora bora... we continue to pursue the americans everywhere.

.

http://english.aljazeera.net/nr/exeres/e473fea1-7a63-4d43-8877-28e09f41eeac.htm

imallgrowedup

LOL @ Elsewhere!

I was listening to an interesting radio interview the other day where an historian was talking about brutal dictators. He was saying that each had his own brand of brutality, however, they all shared one thing in common: they were all delusional. IMHO, this article just shows that this commonality with dictators seems to apply to international terrorists as well!

my .02

growedup

85

Senators Told Iraq Had WOMD & Delivery Capability

by Satanus in

http://www.floridatoday.com/!newsroom/localstoryn1216nelson.htm

u.s. sen. bill nelson said monday the bush administration last year told him and other senators that iraq not only had weapons of mass destruction, but they had the means to deliver them to east coast cities.

nelson, d-tallahassee, said about 75 senators got that news during a classified briefing before last october's congressional vote authorizing the use of force to remove saddam hussein from power.

imallgrowedup

Pat,

Anyway, my point is and i won't argue it because it's a waste of time any more in this polarized forum is that it seemed well-documented that the US was sending in spies on the UN Inspection Team and Saddam threw them out.

As I said in my earlier post to Simon, I don't doubt that they were spying.

They probably were. However, in order to find something that someone else wants hidden, more than likely, you're going to have to employ spy tactics to find it. It's just part of the way these things work. Because the first team had been destroying banned weapons, and the inspectors themselves said there were more, I still believe that they were getting too close to what he REALLY did not want to be found, and he tossed them out because he knew he wouldn't face any serious repercussions.

IMHO there are too many unexplained things that point to the fact that if we weren't spying on them, we should have been!

First of all, why was Saddam annexing public buildings and declaring them "Presidential Palaces", thereby exempting them from inspection, just prior to the ejection of the first inspection team?

Second, it is a proven fact that a terrorist training facility was found outside of Baghdad, with an American airplane on the premises. Why do you suppose it was there? Who do you think put it there? Who do you think used it? Link: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/salman_pak.htm

Third, it is also a proven fact that we found approximately 30 airplanes buried as deep as 20 to 30 feet in the Iraqi desert. If Saddam would go to these lengths to hide his aircraft, how far would he go to hide his WMD that the first group of inspectors knew existed?! I believe we would have been foolish NOT to be spying on him! He is a devious man and was not cooperating with the inspectors as he agreed to do! Link: http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/884/documentid/2186/history/3,884,2186

I've yet to find someone with views differing from my own to answer any of the questions I've put forth (I added the third one today). Could it be that no one likes the answer they would have to give? Will you be the brave soul to answer them?

growedup

44

Libya to give up WMD!!

by imallgrowedup in

breaking news!

libya has voluntarily decided to dismantle their wmd program!

i guess the iraq war and the subsequent capture of saddam is having a ripple effect!

imallgrowedup

Czar -

I wonder if he had a religious experience.

I've never heard the coalition described in quite that way! But I'm willing to bet that once he saw what happened to Saddam, he went and had himself his own personal "Come to Jesus!" experience! Sure hope N Korea and Iran do the same!

:-)

growedup