talesin

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Posts by talesin

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  23

  inquiring mind has 3 questions

  by OutsiderLookingIn in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just a few questions from a newbie.

  answer one or as many as you want.

  1. why cleaners?

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  talesin

  Good point, DJS, and when you combine shunning with no education, the question "where would I go?" creates even more anxiety. In my experience, many JWS are involved in family or other collaborative businesses (construction & cleaning being the two big ones around here). With little or no real world experience, and young mouths to feed, it could be quite frightening.
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  77

  Did you KNOW Ray and Cynthia or the legal copyright holder? Only a few maybe had limited contact.

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have known all of them over the last 15 years, talked at length with them, and knew what their wishes were, the copyright holder and spouse spent even more time with them socially and helping them set up their arrangements for when ray and cynthia passed.

  i don't believe that anyone else on this board or others was a confidant.

  there is no need to prove it to anyone but the copyright office which is satisfied with this.

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  talesin

  There's one in my library. Many universities have it as well (one here has it). And many unis and church libraries are happy to arrange special loans, or you can visit and read there (if you consider the book is THAT vital). That was my first thought, actually - the library is where (pre WWW, I did my research.

  ========================================================================

  I will also say this - most of the information vital to anyone's learning TTATT, is on this forum, or discussed in other places. And yes, by bona fide scholars in the field, on this very DB.

  Perhaps a thread with links to JWN discussions of salient points (that use appropriate quotes from the book, in accordance with the laws, and in line with the Franz' wishes) would be a good idea?

  To all lurkers, and those seeking to learn about this, there are many excellent threads. Members to check for awesome essays and discussions are Amazing (yup,he was, totally amazing), Farkel (enfant terrible and big ole softie), Onacruse (deep thinker), Hillary_Step (respect) and many others.

  *This* is what we do - we find solutions to help people learn about and escape this cult. We don't have to be formally organized, to co-operate on an important issue. It's all about support and disseminating facts.

  We should support the caretakers of this man who gave up more than we know, Ray Franz, and his wife, Cynthia, and the woman who was given the task of protecting his legacy.

  
  

  Timeline of Events since copyright changed hands:

  As I explained on a previous thread - Mrs. Franz died late December, 2013. That's 2 years, or 24 months ago. It took 18 months to effect the Transfer of Copyright - there is a link to the US Gov't site which states that today, the waiting period is about 14 months. Let's say at least 3 months for probate court - and if there was no will,.as someone has intimated, maybe even 6 months to get things straightened out.

  18 months + 3 months = 21 months. So, that leaves 3 months lag - let's get REAL. So, in the last several months, CofC could have been put online, as an E-Book. But no, Mr. John Cedars aka Lloyd Evans decides it's been just too long, and he has to start selling books. Now, there is a mess. People are arguing, creating needless drama over a nonissue. (see above, the facts are here, and some wonderful teachers - the book can be read anytime)

  Also, we discussed the costs of translation - this needs to be done, and soon. That, too, is one of the considerations that is taking time. No one is going to retire on the 'profits' from this book.

  .

  Give the custodian a break (do you 'get' the timeline now?), and realize how discouraging it must be for HER to know all this is going on.

  .

  Remember, your world is no longer black and white. Judgment calls and opinions are expected to be based on facts and real-world expectations. 1. We don't 'need' the book - that is claptrap, it's all here. 2. Use this as a learning experience, to get the facts, and avoid drama queens. xx

  PS. Blondie, tks for setting a few things straight. You're the best. : )
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  42

  What I thought CLAM meant , can you think of anymore ?

  by smiddy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for a while there i was confused as to what clam stood for .. ideas that crossed my mind .

  christ left a ministry , or meeting .

  children`s lives are mine .....( pedo`s in the borg ).

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  talesin

  Cults

  Lobotomize

  All

  Members.
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  17

  Wear were you in the "Pecking order" in the congro??

  by karter in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  we were right down with the very lowest.. father never a jw we had a po with little mans syndrome and love to pick on sisters that had no husband to stand up for them,he picked on my mother only to find out he picked on the wrong person,she came from a hard up bringing and didn't take any s###t from anyone particularly this little bully and we were very poor...how low can you get!.

  karter..

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  talesin

  Sabin, your comment. I had to laugh, because that is who I am NOW. As a JW, I was a complete carpet.

  And it is true that some people don't like opinionated women. So be it. Unfortunate, but oh well! :P
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  17

  Wear were you in the "Pecking order" in the congro??

  by karter in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  we were right down with the very lowest.. father never a jw we had a po with little mans syndrome and love to pick on sisters that had no husband to stand up for them,he picked on my mother only to find out he picked on the wrong person,she came from a hard up bringing and didn't take any s###t from anyone particularly this little bully and we were very poor...how low can you get!.

  karter..

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  talesin

  Dad was an auditor as the conventions, need I say much more? 4th generation, and if you were not JW, you were the low-class, poor relations we didn't associate with. Mother is a saint, known back in the day by folks all over who sent her cards when she broke her neck and had a 'miraculous' recovery.

  Remembering how deep my family is in. When a certain old elder died, I felt SUCH relief. I was so terrified of him and his brother, who kind of 'ruled' our region for the 50s, 60s, thru to the 80s. But I was in my 40s, and didn't realize until he passed, how much fear his name struck in me. We were poor, but no one ever knew it.

  And it wasn't fun to be paraded around as the 'perfect child', on the platform at conventions before school age, teaching a daily scripture to my classmates in primary school. Sick sick cult.

  [ EDIT: lots of marriage offers, starting at age 13, YIKES! just had to emphasize the SICK. ]

  BOO ! But I'm all right meow. haha xx
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  54

  "Even if it isn't the truth, it's still the best way to live"

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  have you heard that old chestnut?

  i have.. typically it's the last resort when you have dismantled a jws beliefs and they have no way of defending them.

  they know they are beat so they come out with that one.. its effectively an admission that you are right and they have no argument but they are still going to attend meetings because they like the social club.. what a lame way to defend your faith..

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  talesin

  Joyzabel - even though I was young, can still remember his voice at Yankee Stadium assembly my family attended. Very fanatical, and in my child's mind, he scared me, rather like Hitler.

  And this thread reminded me of another JW-ism that was common: "the worst Jehovah's witness is better than the best worldly person".
  
  
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  29

  Who did you believe the scriptures were describing when you were a JW?

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it never hit me until i was out.

  matt:23;4 "they tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them.

  on other people shoulders".

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  talesin

  I remember Billy Graham being touted as Satan's tool. This was listening to adult gossip as a child, but they said "when he came here in 196-, they used KFC buckets for collections".

  False prophets - I remember a talk about cults, and the Moonies & their Reverend Sun Myung Moon ... also Children of God. So, that was 60s, 70s. Oh, and the Mormons - Joseph Smith and his addition to the bible, was a false prophet as well.
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  8

  Brooklyn Brownstoner article: Reader Unearths Fascinating 1969 Letter About Then-New Jehovah’s Witnesses HQ

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2016/01/jehovah-witness-history-brooklyn-squibb-1969-donations/.

  reader unearths fascinating 1969 letter about then-new jehovah’s witnesses hq.

  by barbara eldredge 1/25/16.

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  talesin

  I had never read that full story of Russel and the real estate and subsequent court cases (especially Empire); it really was all about the money. He had great ambition and lust for fame as well, as evidenced by his need for recognition.

  That's quite the connection to the story, too, Ms. Anderson. : D I can well imagine that those were exciting times, being young and zealous. The real evils were not apparent in those days.
  
  One thing this article made me remember ... 1969 ... the Awake! (TM) front cover about 1975. Yet, at the same time, making major investments in real estate. I was still a child, so don't remember the reasoning behind this. Perhaps an expansion of the 'preaching work' due to the urgency of the 1975 date?
  
  Thanks, very interesting. xx
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  23

  inquiring mind has 3 questions

  by OutsiderLookingIn in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just a few questions from a newbie.

  answer one or as many as you want.

  1. why cleaners?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  talesin

  1. Why cleaners? This isn't a class or status question. I don't look down on people for their occupation but I'm curious. I've read so many stories here that Jehovah's Witnesses are cleaners and the few I know are tidy. What's the history of that? The money is great, and you work off-hours, unless you choose to do private homes or restoration cleaning.

  
  

  2. What does 2/3 leave the religion really mean? It sounds very positive, but from my anecdotal experience and what I've read here, leaving doesn't mean they won't return or that even if they're inactive they are not still heavily indoctrinated. I believe that may be 2/3 of GenXers or even Y; many Boomers are just waking up to TTATT in their 50s, 60s. And yes, many who leave the cult physically remain prisoners in their minds, never losing the guilt and need to 'do better'.

  3. Non-JWs/never dubs: how many first learned what JWs actually believe or became interested in the business of JWs because a significant other or a romantic interest was a JW? On another thread, I mentioned that most of us mere worldlies don't know what it's really all about until it confronts us head on. I had some forewarning and still didn't understand how captive and damaging JWs could be. Born in, so N/A.

  
  

  
  

  Edit: Good point, Black Sheep....... glad to read that, have been wondering if you are doing ok. : )
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  38

  Honestly, Did Jehovah's Witnesses Do Anything POSITIVE For You?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was raised as a witness and am very thankful that i am out.

  having said that, i think my upbringing produced positive qualities in me.

  do you believe that anything positive came from your being a witness?

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  talesin