as the title says, please list what you find annoying with the organization..
1914, the blood doctrine, and the false predictions are my biggest issues. While claiming to have "truth", they continue to ignore any reasonsble arguments that contradict them. And what really bothered me about predicting false dates more than the act itself is condemning others who have done the same thing.
Shunning because you no longer believe in this religion is also an issue. If you don't believe it in, you should be free to go Without heavy punishment
who else thinks something is afoot with this?
is the gb deciding to go back to pre-1971 times with perhaps the cobe as the man in charge and the rest just ministerial servants.
so for this reason they want younger men in those postitions?
I think the reason for this is because of 1) age and 2) experience. 80 years old is a pretty old age, some may not be able to function to capacity or as efficiently as a younger person. It's a buiness move, out with the old, in with the new. People at that age are very experienced, they know how the system works and it's limits. To retire those over 80 would allow new opportunites to bring in young people, but young people lack the experience. The younger ones will most likely follow what is being said since they do not know the limits of the system or how it completely works. It may be easier for them to follow directions. And like it was mentioned before, all the new changes could cause problems for the older ones who need to keep up. The younger ones won't be as well aware of or use to the old system so all this new stuff wont be as much of a problem and they're more adaptable than the older.
the watchtower has forced a rather strange interpretation of the word "generation" in order to keep their doctrinal beliefs concerning the year 1914 consistent with the words of jesus "this generation will not pass...".
however, the watchtower's "overlapping" definition of the word generation is strange and unnatural to common use.
according to the watchtower, a grandfather, son, and grandson all living at the same time would make up a single generation.
Their definition of generation is closer to the word "contemporaries"- a person or thing living or existing at the same time as another. But with a mix of "population". It's a really odd concept they had to come up with.
some of you might know me from this thread.
i wrote a longform article, 'in the belly of jehovah', on the jehovah's witnesses for an australian magazine, which today has been published online: .
http://theliftedbrow.com/post/88214463157/in-the-belly-of-jehovah-by-pete-nicholson.
Thanks for posting this. It was a good read. I liked how both Witnesses and ex-witnesses were included in this To get both points of view
looks like the borg spent all it's money on hd panels, gigabit internet connections and ipads cause this is by far the lamest and most stupid drama ever in the history of the org!.
apart from the worse than porn-without-the-porn acting and dialogue, the special effects consist of square painted panels and a crappy blue screen.
also the lighting looks like it was made using flashlights.. even the die hards we're laughing at it and mentioned how silly it looked.. i envy all of those that aren't attending this "historic 100-years-since-christ's-reign" convention.. .
What was the drama about?
loecsh just announced a new publication called god's kingdom rules.. looks like crap.. will probably be old light by the time i submit this post.. i feel like i'm live-tweeting an apple event..
could someone post a picture of the new history book? I'd love to see it. Plus, what does it discuss in it? The DVD only did a good job in highlighting the positive and omitting a lot of information, specifically controversial or negative, much like propaganda.
when rutherford assumed the presidency of the watchtower society he instituted series of sweeping changes to the teachings and practices of the bible students.
some of these changes were at complete odds with what had been taught previously.
a key example was the elevation of the watchtower society as "god's visible organization on earth".
Did you guys see that "advertisment" for the atlanta international assembly? They kept repeating "listen, obey, and be blessed" several times, and they have a little girl say it one last time at the end. It's like their new slogan!
we are living in a time of change for the Watchtower, we'll have to see what happens next and how the organization changes. But this post does make some good observations
i'm looking for some good examples from the bible where men of high positions have been brought down and ones of low have been raised.
it's mentioned in daniel 4: 17, luke 1:52, ezekiel 21:26 and other texts.
jws interpret daniel 4:17 as a reference to jesus to back up the 1914 doctrine, so i'm looking for examples to give an alternate to that..
I'm looking for some good examples from the Bible where men of high positions have been brought down and ones of low have been raised. It's mentioned in Daniel 4: 17, luke 1:52, Ezekiel 21:26 and other texts. JWs interpret Daniel 4:17 as a reference to Jesus to back up the 1914 doctrine, so I'm looking for examples to give an alternate to that.
jws always touted wwis beginning in 1914 as evidence that the kingdom was born in heaven in that year.
i was told that since satan was cast out of heaven, he started stirring up trouble on earth - like wwi.
but theres one problem with that wwi started some months before oct 1914 (the month when the kingdom was supposedly born).. i asked jws about that in the mid 1980s, and i was told that satan started wwi before oct 1914 to divert attention away from the birth of the kingdom.
*** w72 6/1 pp. 351-352 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
Why did the beginning of World War I not coincide with the early part of October, when the “appointed times of the nations” ended?—U.S.A.
As has often been shown in this magazine, the conferring of kingship over the nations on Christ Jesus took place in 1914 C.E., at the expiration of the “appointed times of the nations” or the Gentile Times. (Luke 21:24; Dan. 4:16, 17, 31, 32) Those “appointed times” began 2,520 years earlier, after the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. and the assassination of the Jewish governor Gedaliah. The murder of Gedaliah in the month of Tishri (September/October) (“at the seventh new moon,” Byington translation) prompted those Jews left remaining in the land of Judah to flee. (Jer. 41:1, 2; 43:2-7) By the time the fearful Jews fled to Egypt it must have been at least the middle of Tishri, to allow enough time for the events mentioned in the Bible as taking place between the assassination and the flight. (Compare Jeremiah 41:4, 10–42:7.) This would place the start of the Gentile Times about Tishri 15, 607 B.C.E.
At the end of the Gentile Times, about Tishri 15 (October 4/5), 1914 C.E., Revelation 11:15 was fulfilled: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ.” By enthroning his Son Jesus Christ, Jehovah God took his power to rule as King over the world of mankind. The rulership of the great Adversary, Satan the Devil, was due to end.
Being the ‘ruler of the world’ of mankind alienated from God, Satan certainly did not want to see the Kingdom take full control of earth’s affairs. (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11) Over nineteen centuries earlier he maneuvered matters in such a way that, had it not been for divine intervention, Herod the Great would have killed the infant Jesus. (Matt. 2:13) Similarly, even before the birth of the heavenly kingdom, Satan readied himself and his demons for an attack. This is symbolically described at Revelation 12:3-5, where we read: “Another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child. And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne.”
It should not be surprising, then, that World War I broke out about two months before the end of the Gentile Times, and hence beforethe birth of the symbolic “son” or heavenly kingdom. Satan the Devil did not need to wait until after kingship over the nations had been placed in the hands of Jesus Christ to maneuver the nations into a large-scale war. The start of that sanguinary conflict was doubtless part of his scheme to blind persons to what had happened in the heavens in fulfillment of Bible prophecy and also, if at all possible, to hinder the Kingdom from ruling over the world of mankind.
The Revelation book makes no mention of this when you look up the commentary for Revelation 12:3-5 so there's a discrepancy. Doesn't make sense either, no where does it say Satan will start a war or cause trouble on earth while waiting for the child to be born. It's a very weak interpretation. Aside from that, the Herod example doesn't work very well since his order to kill infants came long after Jesus birth, different from 1914 where Satan caused the War before hand, before the birth of the child according to them. World War 1 build itself up for a long time, 1914 was just the tipping point from a conflict that started long ago.
Other points to consider: Russells prediction was just a drop in the bucket out of many other predictions of his time. John Aquila Brown predicted the "full glory of Israel" for 1917, year which they were liberated from the Turks. Robert Fleming predicted the fall of the Papacy and French Monarcy for the end of the 18th century which the pope was executed around that time. Doesn't mean that they correctly predicted these events though they came close
like Carl Olof Jonsson points out: "How could Christ’s kingdom have been so weak in 1914 that it ran the risk of being devoured by Satan and therefore had to be “caught away” from his gaping jaws to God’s throne?" (the Gentile Times Reconsidered, 2004 p.272)
my active jw wife has gone to all meetings, assemblies, memorials, and service groups by herself after i faded off the radar about 5 years ago.
i asked her this past saturday as she prepared to join another sister from the kh for the service group regarding, voluntary donations.
i inquired if publishers still mention this to the householder when placing literature.
A couple of years ago, the CO told us to being up "voluntary donations" at the door as it might encourage people to donate. he said we should do it to stay "unified" with other Witnesses that ask for it. No one really did it after he left, just went back to the old activity of not asking.
