Posts by baldeagle

The Bible states that God created “the heavens and the earth.” This broad statement, however, makes no reference to the length of time involved in creating the universe or to the methods he used to shape it. In the Bible account, each of the six creative days could have lasted for thousands of years. God had already created the universe, including a lifeless planet Earth, by the time the first creative day began. Evidently the six creative days were long periods during which Jehovah God prepared the earth for human habitation. The Bible account of creation does not conflict with scientific conclusions about the age of the universe.

1985 Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation? Chap. 3 pp. 26-27 pars. 5&7 What Does Genesis Say?

5 This last sentence appears to fit the creative “days,” for certainly they were periods when extraordinary events were described as happening. It also allows for periods much longer than 24 hours.

7 It would seem reasonable that the “days” of Genesis could likewise have embraced long periods of time—millenniums.

WT January 1, 1987 p. 30

Second, a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long. It is understood that Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring to a close God’s 7,000-year ‘rest day,’ the last ‘day’ of the creative week. (Revelation 20:6; Genesis 2:2, 3) Based on this reasoning, the entire creative week would be 49,000 years long…..and humans have existed, not for 49,000 years, but for about 6,000 years.

Blondie made an excellent point: “The WTS has backed off using the phrase 7,000 years but here it shows the concept is still official.” I looked it up for myself and as she quoted it’s found in a recent WT study namely the October 15, 2012. This was news to me.

Over the years I noticed they were using expressions like, millenniums, thousands of years, extended over many thousands of years, each of these epochs evidently lasted thousands of years, etc.”

I asked some JW’s over the years (when I was still involved) and many said that the literal view of 7000 years per creative day had been discarded and many more said they were unsure what the real answer was!!

Evidently the 2012 WT reveals that their still hanging on to the 7000 years for the creative days.

51

If You Got a Call or Visit From The Elders How Would You Deal With Them?

by minimus in

jw
friends

just curious..

baldeagle

After 40 years being actively involved and fooled by it all, I conducted a successful five year fade. I wasn’t going to stand for any of their intrusions or let’s drop in on Brother Inactive. I told the PO several years ago do not ever phone me at home.

I also told him to please tell the rest of the BOE to not come to my house. Do not knock on my door, do not drive by on a summer afternoon for a visit and catch me washing my car or cutting the lawn. He said, “We still love you as a brother and want you to start associating with us again.”

So I said that if you step on my property, I will be polite and courteous enough to ask you to leave immediately. If you are not gone within one minute I will call the police and tell them I have someone trespassing who will not leave. He said I will pass that on to the other elders.

Not one phone call for anything, not one “regain the lost sheep” visit ever.

End of story!

36

Letter About Blood Fractions

by Bangalore in

letter about blood fractions.. .

.

bangalore.

baldeagle

1961 Blood, Medicine and the Law of God

Pg. 13-14: Is God's law violated by these medical procedures that involve the use of blood? Is it wrong to sustain life by administering a transfusion of blood or plasma or red cells or others of the component parts of the blood? Yes! The law God gave to Noah made it unlawful for anyone to eat blood, that is, to use it for nourishment or to sustain life. Since this is wrong in the case of animal blood, it is even more reprehensible in the case of human blood. The prohibition includes “any blood at all.” (Leviticus 3:17)

Pg. 15: They know that God required that shed blood be poured out on the ground. Nor are they going to feel that a slight infraction, such as momentary storage of blood in a syringe when it is drawn from one part of the body for injection into another part, is somehow less objectionable than storing it for a longer period of time.

Pg. 39: Although Jehovah's witnesses will not eat blood as a food, nor in medical use consent to any kind of blood transfusion or, in place of it, an infusion of any blood fraction or blood substance, this does not rule out all medical treatment.

Fast forward almost 40 years later and we now have the following.

WT June 15, 2000 p. 30 Questions From Readers

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses accept any medical products derived from blood?

Just as blood plasma can be a source of various fractions, the other primary components (red cells, white cells, platelets) can be processed to isolate smaller parts. For example, white blood cells may be a source of interferons and interleukins, used to treat some viral infections and cancers. Platelets can be processed to extract a wound-healing factor. And other medicines are coming along that involve (at least initially) extracts from blood components. Such therapies are not transfusions of those primary components; they usually involve parts or fractions thereof. Should Christians accept these fractions in medical treatment? We cannot say. The Bible doesnot give details, so a Christian must make his own conscientious decision before God.

Awake August 8, 2006 pp. 11-12 The Real Value of Blood

Jehovah’s Witnesses are well known for taking these Bible commands to heart. They reject all transfusions involving whole blood or the four primary blood components—red cells, plasma, white cells, and platelets. As for the various fractions derived from those components—and products that contain such fractions—the Bible doesnot comment on these. Therefore, each Witness makes his own personal decision on such matters.

Observation: When reading the above 1961 publication one observes the total abstinence of all blood including any and all fractions. Even the “momentary storage of blood in a syringe” was prohibited. Truly the feeling on this matter was a “Zero Tolerance” for the use of “any blood at all.”

WTS claims that Jesus chose the F&DS in 1919 and speaks only through them in dispensing spirit-directed information. One would have to believe that the Lord waited 39 years before he conveyed the “New Light” on this subject in the year 2000. The new understanding went from “Zero Tolerance” on all blood fractions, to, “We cannot say. The Bible does not give details.” Or “the Bible does not comment on these.”

If the prohibition of all blood fractions was not even commented on in the Bible, who made this up?

You would think that Jesus would have the power to convey this vital medical information through his chosen followers a whole lot sooner.

51

Jehovah's Witness juror - The actions of this juror are a complete disgrace, said Prince Georges County States Attorney Angela Alsobrooks.

by Sol Reform in

http://www.csnwashington.com/article/juror-email-leads-mistrial.

juror email leads to mistrial.

that juror now faces a possible contempt of court charge.the trial of a man involved in a high speed crash that killed a prince george's county police officer last year ended in a mistrial.. one of the jurors told the judge via email thursday morning that judging others was a violation of her religion as a jehovah's witness, news4's prince george's county bureau chief tracee wilkins reported.. kevon darnell neal, 23, was charged with vehicular manslaughter and fleeing and eluding following the death of officer adrian morris, 23.. morris and his partner were pursuing a stolen silver acura when their cruiser ran off interstate 95 near the powder mill road exit in august 2012. morris died after being ejected from the vehicle.

baldeagle

If this individual had congregation privileges, say an elder/ms/pioneer would they be removed for bringing reproach on God’s name? If they had this change of heart after the trial began would they lose their precious privileges? After all it is embarrassing to JW’s who claim to have this superior Bible knowledge, while everyone else in the world is pathetically lost. My guess is they would, for using poor judgement and not deciding in advance.

78

May 22, 1969 Awake! promises "you will never grow old" - Creative Writing

by Mad Sweeney in

jw
friends

the year is 1969. faithful followers of the watchtower society are gearing up for the imminent end of the system of things just as they had been for the previous ninety years.

a young witness named andrew is trying to decide what to do with his life.

andrew is a smart kid and he has an entire lifetime ahead of him.

baldeagle

Great story with a perfect ending. The saddest thing about it all is, we all know many individuals that followed this advice. Some of these sincere kind brothers & sisters could have become great doctors, teachers, nurses, social workers etc. Many had specific leanings towards a certain field of learning or were natural students. I used to look around at the DC's & in the congregation at people in this age group. So many were still struggling financially and were physically worn out from their jobs. The look on their faces revealed the true feelings about the decisions they made decades earlier. How very sad!!

22

WT Study Article Counsels JWs To Be Humane Towards Disfellowshiped Ones

by baldeagle in

jw
friends

wt august 1, 1974 pp.

467-468 maintaining a balanced viewpoint toward disfellowshiped ones.

5 it is right to hate the wrong committed by the disfellowshiped one, but it is not right to hate the person nor is it right to treat such ones in an inhumane way.suppose, then, a member of a christian congregation boating on a lake were to see another boat containing a disfellowshiped person capsize, throwing the disfellowshiped one into the water where he struggled to stay afloat.

baldeagle

I humbly agree with all the posters comments regarding this much older and obsolete WT study article. It is still available on the 2012 WT library for now anyway.

AMNESIANO, blondie, frankiespeakin, flipper and others all correctly stated we now have a newer meaner, harsher stand on treating disfellowshipped ones. As Oubliette said, “The brief days of a "kinder, gentler JW" are long gone.

steve2 you are bang on, “a more understanding and compassionate approach to "apostasy" would open the floodgates on the shonky Watchtower dam. To brook even tolerance of doubters would cause others in local congregations to question.”

In my personal case as I stated on another post, “I haven’t been to a meeting in four years. During that time I completed a successful fade from the organization after almost 40 years being baptized.” I was a longtime servant (ms/elder) that began having doubts about policies and doctrines. The dam finally burst for me when I finally had enough with the last “overlapping generation” insanity. Enough was enough!! I was never reproved, DA, or DF’ed. But you would think otherwise with the way I’m treated.

I can vouch that the meaner harsher stance and prevailing attitude of congregation members to “shun” has successfully crossed over to include faders as well. Friendships I had spanning several decades have all pretty well dried up. Even though I remained civilized and extended a hand of friendship through emails, phone messages and text messages, it was rarely reciprocated. Many would say they would get back to me later. I was always known for my generous hospitality and loyal friendship. I was outgoing and enjoyed a good time, families appreciated coming over to my home. I was that brother/elder that was not overly prudish or narrow-minded. In the end I was truly “naive” as all of you have so eloquently said; congregation love and relationships are truly “conditional.” The WTS has been successful in training their followers that if someone drops away you isolate them.

The fear factor that our present brotherhood is experiencing is tremendous. They fear their nagging doubts, suspicions, and thoughts, but can never express themselves. A good and upright longtime friend must be discarded simply because he no longer can agree with everything. The Watchtower leadership should be proud of themselves.

22

WT Study Article Counsels JWs To Be Humane Towards Disfellowshiped Ones

by baldeagle in

jw
friends

wt august 1, 1974 pp.

467-468 maintaining a balanced viewpoint toward disfellowshiped ones.

5 it is right to hate the wrong committed by the disfellowshiped one, but it is not right to hate the person nor is it right to treat such ones in an inhumane way.suppose, then, a member of a christian congregation boating on a lake were to see another boat containing a disfellowshiped person capsize, throwing the disfellowshiped one into the water where he struggled to stay afloat.

baldeagle

WT August 1, 1974 pp. 467-468 Maintaining a Balanced Viewpoint Toward Disfellowshiped Ones

5 It is right to hate the wrong committed by the disfellowshiped one, but it is not right to hate the person nor is it right to treat such ones in an inhumane way.Suppose, then, a member of a Christian congregation boating on a lake were to see another boat containing a disfellowshiped person capsize, throwing the disfellowshiped one into the water where he struggled to stay afloat. Could the Christian ignore that one’s peril, row away and feel free from guilt before God—inasmuch as the one in danger of drowning was disfellowshiped, viewed as “a man of the nations”?Certainly not. That would be cruel and inhumane. We cannot imagine Christ Jesus doing so; nor would any other Jew of the first century who had a balanced viewpoint have reacted that way toward a Gentile or a tax collector in such a plight.

6 But consider a less extreme situation. What if a woman who had been disfellowshiped were to attend a congregational meeting and upon leaving the hall found that her car, parked nearby, had developed a flat tire? Should the male members of the congregation, seeing her plight, refuse to aid her, perhaps leaving it up to some worldly person to come along and do so? This too would be needlessly unkind and inhumane.

Yet situations just like this have developed, perhaps in all good conscience, yet due to a lack of balance in viewpoint.

7 If we imitate our heavenly Father we will remember that he even showed certain considerateness toward the first human pair after their disfellowshipping in Eden, providing them with clothing. (Gen. 3:21) This was an undeserved kindness toward them. As Jesus reminded his disciples, Jehovah God “makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous.” (Matt. 5:45) So, not “mixing in company” with a person, or treating such one as “a man of the nations,” does not prevent us from being decent, courteous, considerate and humane.

I always found this study article to be disturbing and shameful. Things are really bad when the F&DS feel it necessary, to actually have to tell their followers to do the right thing in a life-saving emergency. Also to be a gentleman and help a woman in need!

Why do we even have to clarify or ask such embarrassing questions in a WT study? Do we really need to obtain permission to save a disfellowshiped human being (either real or hypothetical) from drowning? Can’t a JW decide on their own what is morally and ethically right? This is a symptom of organizational dysfunction, a sign you see whenever people aren't allowed to think for themselves. For that reason no one does anything, since they are so afraid of garnering disapproval and condemnation from others.

They have become so micromanaged and told what and how to do every little thing. As a result they are now too irresponsible to make a common sense decision.

On the other hand, if this individual was a Catholic nun drowning, or a Muslim person with a flat tire, they would be tripping all over themselves to help them out. Afterwards, they would commend one another and brag about how they gave such a good witness, showing true Christian love!!

50

Need help from JW History Buffs

by ILoveTTATT in

i need help with writing an article regarding vaccinations, organ transplants, and blood transfusions.. i am doing my research using limited amounts of non-wt sources and mostly just the actual wt literature.. what i am having a hard time understanding is:.

most of the articles in the golden age, at least at the beginning of the anti-vaccination stance, are actually written by contributors.

since there are very pro-vaccination articles and then lots of anti-vaccination articles, how can i determine the actual wt viewpoint on vaccinations?.

baldeagle

WT February 15, 1952 p. 128 Announcements

Friends of the truth throughout the earth will be interested to learn of the death of one who played a prominent part in the affairs of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society for many years, Clayton J. Woodworth.

Brother Woodworth was made editor of the Society’s newly introduced magazine The Golden Age. He remained editor when the magazine’s name was changed to Consolation in 1937, to carry on as such until 1946. Because of advancing years he was relieved of this when the magazine was given a new change of name to Awake!

He died at the ripe old age of 81, loyal to the faith and unwaveringly devoted to the theocratic organization, on December 18, 1951, at 4 a.m.

Its common knowledge that Rutherford appointed his buddy Clayton J. Woodworth to manage and be the editor and decision maker of the The Golden Age and Consolation magazines. It was during his tenure that Woodworth allowed the understanding and opposition towards vaccines to manifest and become doctrine for several decades. Some very bizarre and unsavory comments were printed in order for JW’s to feel revulsion towards accepting vaccinations. Interestingly, only one year after Clayton J. Woodworth died the WT December 15, 1952immediately released “New Light” and completely rescinded and overturned all the decades’ long teachings. Some have suggested that the WTS wanted to do this much sooner but out of respect, courtesy and to avoid embarrassment for Brother Woodworth they waited until after he died. Below is that Watchtower with my italics and highlighting.

WT December 15, 1952 p. 764 Questions From Readers

● Is vaccination a violation of God’s law forbidding the taking of blood into the system? G. C. North Carolina.

The matter of vaccination is one for the individual that has to face it to decide for himself. Each individual has to take the consequences for whatever position and action he takes toward a case of compulsory vaccination, doing so according to his own conscienceand his appreciation of what is for good health and the interests of advancing God’s work. And our Society cannot afford to be drawn into the affair legally or take the responsibility for the way the case turns out.

After consideration of the matter, it does not appear to usto bein violationof the everlasting covenant made with Noah, as set down in Genesis 9:4, (Verse 4: Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat.) nor contrary to God’s related commandment at Leviticus 17:10-14.

Most certainlyit cannot reasonably or Scripturally be argued and proved that, by being vaccinated, the inoculated person is either eating or drinking blood and consuming it as foodor receiving a blood transfusion.

Vaccination does not bear any relationshipto or any likeness to the intermarriage of angelic “sons of God” with the daughters of men,as described in Genesis 6:1-4.

Neither can it be put in the same class as described at Leviticus 18:23, 24, which forbids the mingling of humans with animals. It has nothing to do with sex relations.(Verse 23: “‘And you must not give your emission to any beast to become unclean by it, and a woman should not stand before a beast to have connection with it. It is a violation of what is natural.)

Hence all objection to vaccination on Scriptural grounds seems to be lacking. Medical science, in fact, claims that vaccination actually results in building up the vitality of the blood to resist the disease against which the person is inoculated. But, of course, that is a question for each individual concerned to decide for himselfand as he sees it to be Jehovah’s will for him. We merely offer the above information on request, but can assume no responsibility for the decision and course the reader may take.

19

The Total Embracing Of The Internet - How Will It All End?

by baldeagle in

jw
friends

i havent been to a meeting in four years.

during that time i completed a successful fade from the organization after almost 40 years being baptized.

it seems nothing anymore will surprise or shock me with these latest bunch of brooklyn leaders.

baldeagle

To Besty: East-Central Canada