Magnum and Coded no kidding. I did the letter writing too. I hated it, so I never did it just to mark time, but because the not-at-home and no trespass people needed their chance. Crazy.
Apognophos I think my husband was more like you, he never bought into the death and destruction quite as fully as I did.
Posts by Odrade
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28Be effective or people will die
by Odrade inmy husband and i have been out of the org for quite some time, but still find that old ideas and values come up and bite us on the ass.. lately, i've been plagued by an increase in the frequency and severity of my nightmares (which have always been an issue,) so i've begun to dream journal.
in just a few days, this realization cropped up.
i can't save people.. i've been blogging again recently.
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Odrade
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28
Be effective or people will die
by Odrade inmy husband and i have been out of the org for quite some time, but still find that old ideas and values come up and bite us on the ass.. lately, i've been plagued by an increase in the frequency and severity of my nightmares (which have always been an issue,) so i've begun to dream journal.
in just a few days, this realization cropped up.
i can't save people.. i've been blogging again recently.
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Odrade
baltar and steve2 I hope you're right that the WT is generally kinder and gentler regarding bloodguilt. I suspect it varies a bit by congregation, and even more by family.
Wasa Once, I suspect this is a problem particular to born-ins and raised-ins. Yes. It has nothing to do with arrogance ("get over myself") though, it's way more gut-level - almost limbic.
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25
Finally sent that letter, but not to mom...
by Odrade inno not that letter.. so we hobbled along with the family relationship.
my parents (super-devout, highly involved and connected in jw-land,) spoke with me occasionally with that sad mopey voice.
at one point about 6 years ago, my mom quit speaking to me.
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Odrade
LB, I love your rambling. It's fascinating to me to see the commonalities so many of us raised-ins share.
We are all incredibly strong people to come out the other side of that level of indoctrination, with our lives and personalities as intact as they are.
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37
How did you feel when you got baptised? Seriously....
by stuckinarut2 inso recently, several over-righteous ones in the cong were discussing "how amazing it felt when they got baptised".
statements like "how awesome did it feel as you got raised back out of the water?!".
or the classic "i felt so close to jehovah as i came out of the pool"!.
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Odrade
Proud, because I had not only done what I was "supposed to be doing," but I had done it before any of my peers.
Worried and confused, because I didn't feel any different, and none of my emotions felt like Holy Spirit.
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28
Be effective or people will die
by Odrade inmy husband and i have been out of the org for quite some time, but still find that old ideas and values come up and bite us on the ass.. lately, i've been plagued by an increase in the frequency and severity of my nightmares (which have always been an issue,) so i've begun to dream journal.
in just a few days, this realization cropped up.
i can't save people.. i've been blogging again recently.
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Odrade
My husband and I have been out of the Org for quite some time, but still find that old ideas and values come up and bite us on the ass.
Lately, I've been plagued by an increase in the frequency and severity of my nightmares (which have always been an issue,) so I've begun to dream journal. In just a few days, this realization cropped up. I can't save people.
I've been blogging again recently. When we first left the WT, I blogged pretty extensively, to help sort out my feelings and bleed off some of the rage I felt. That old blog was anonymous, and at some point I took it down and quit writing much about the process of cult recovery.
Lately, I've felt like I needed a place to process some of these things that follow me. My parents converted when I was still so young that my values were in a formative state. These are the hardest things to discover and change.
Intellectually, I know I can't save people, but it seems my subconcious has yet to get the message.
I've shared about 1/2 the post - the part that I think is common to many of us here - in the quote below. Be kind to yourselves, people.
One of the things I learned as a child was that my words had tremendous power. They could save lives, but only if I used them in exactly the right way. (...) If you are ineffective, that person, upon whose doorstep you are standing, might die.
Might die.
Because of you.
Because this may be their only opportunity. And if you don’t get it exactly right with your “life-saving” magic words, you will be Bloodguilty.
It’s difficult to determine at what age a child begins to understand complex communication like irony, sarcasm and hyperbole. Given the fact that very young children think in linear yes/no terms, it’s not surprising that this idea that “life-saving work” translates into “if you do it wrong, you’re killing them.” It turns out that “bloodguilt” is an easy concept for a child to learn, right alongside “shame” and general guilt.
I’ve begun keeping track of my nightmares. I have them nearly every night, and have had for as long as I can remember. These dreams are vivid and cinematic, often about people I know and care about. Very recently, they have been so visceral that I will come crashing into wakefulness with my heart pounding and my hand on my phone, driven by a need to check on the safety of the person I was dreaming.
This is one of the things my dream journal is showing me. Many of my worst nightmares are about something I have to do to protect, help, or save somebody I care about. And no matter how good or fast or smart or eloquent I am, I can’t save them.
In my nightmares, I’ve watched my friends being ridiculed, shunned, sickened, shot, beaten, drowned, emotionally distraught, tortured, or killed, and been unable to do a thing to prevent it.
I can’t save them. Just like I can’t save all of those people who deserve to Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, because of that one day I was having a bad day and made a bad presentation at the door, or the one day I quit service early and went to swim in the river.
A child can’t understand that if she reads a scripture without the proper inflection she won’t literally be killing the person she’s reading to. But if you teach that lesson of bloodguilt young enough, before a child can make a distinction between abstract ideas and personal responsibility, she will quite literally come to believe, at the core of her being, that she could be the reason people die, if she doesn’t get the message exactly right.
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Odrade
A bit like the "parlor walls" in Fahrenheit 451.
"My wife says books aren't 'real.'"
"Thank God for that. You can shut them, say, 'Hold on a moment.' You play God to it. But who has ever torn himself from the claw that encloses you when you drop a seed in a TV parlor? It grows you any shape it wishes! It is an environment as real as the world. It becomes and is the truth. Books can be beaten down with reason. But with all my knowledge and skepticism, I have never been able to argue with a one-hundred-piece symphony orchestra, full colour, three dimensions, and I being in and part of those incredible parlors. As you see, my parlour is nothing but four plaster walls. And here " He held out two small rubber plugs. "For my ears when I ride the subway-jets."
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59
At This Point In Time Would You Ever Subject Yourself To A Judicial Committee?
by minimus ini certainly wouldn't.
and if the elders wanted to have a meeting with me, i would respectfully decline.
if the elders wanted to deal with you, would you talk with them?.
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Odrade
Nope. I don't owe them an explanation. I don't have any fear of engaging, but I have more important things to do with my time. Books to read, quilts to finish, bourbon to drink, there's probably something on TV that needs watching...
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Odrade
My in-laws are doing the same. Took MIL to costco to get her new tablet, and set up all the JW garbage on it. Now teaching her how to use it. For now, we are practicing "reply to an email." Next I will teach her "write a new email."
She replied to an email last night something like this:
How do I get apps? YOU CAN SEE TAHT I HAVE GOTTEN STUCK WITH CAPITAL LETTERS AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TURN IT OFF. MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME WITH THIS BUT i WILL SIGN OFF FOR NOW.
omg I laughed 'til I cried. I have to admit, I'm getting my money's worth for the entertainment value. The inlaws are in their 70s and 80s, and can barely operate a basic flip cellphone. They haven't asked for a ROKU yet...
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10
facebook-- Humans of New York (HONY)
by losingit inright there, featured on facebook on hony's page... jehovah's witnesses.
posted link to this site and to jwfacts.
im sure i'll get some hate messages.
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Odrade
I wonder how many of the JWs on the thread are counting time? (You know somebody had to bring that up.)
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25
Finally sent that letter, but not to mom...
by Odrade inno not that letter.. so we hobbled along with the family relationship.
my parents (super-devout, highly involved and connected in jw-land,) spoke with me occasionally with that sad mopey voice.
at one point about 6 years ago, my mom quit speaking to me.
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Odrade
Hey Aude! Good to see you too!
likeabird, every word you wrote... it's like looking in a mirror.
My counselor had kind words to say about my decision to write this letter. She said it was a very adult way to behave, and pointed out that our relationship has never been allowed to develop into one where everybody gets to be adults.
I think I learned the thing about guilt from dog training. Uniquely human emotion too. I've been thinking a lot about guilt lately, I'm beginning to suspect that a lot of my nightmares are tied into that emotion. Have you ever tried dream journaling? The counselor suggested I start that.